Countrywide Loan Officer Breaks RESPA Law & It’s All Documented Right Here
Oh, I love these emails. You know the ones when someone is asking for advice when they are dealing with a lender and you get all the dirt on the lender. Well, wouldn’t you know, that lender is on my $h*t list. Mine and your favorite toxic loan originator, Countrywide.
I get so excited. If you could see me now, typing away on my lap top, I look like the chubby kid above.
I have been assisting L (privacy protected) for quite some time now. L has a property, a duplex in the Los Angeles area, that she purchased along with her husband for $1.4 million about a year or so ago. The loan she received when she bought the duplex is terrible and she knows this, now.
She has been trying to get a loan modification and has had no luck because she is current on her loan. So, her only alternative is to refinance. But the catch is that she needs to be at 80% Loan to Value and she is at 90% now. Luckily she was able to convince some family members to lend her over a $100,000 to make the refinance happen and that’s great.
However, she needs to put herself out there on the refinance market and “trust” another lender to work with on her loan. I know, scary stuff. Especially when you have been burned before.
She has been emailing me asking for advice for the past few weeks. Today was no different, until, low and behold, Countrywide is in the picture and have offered her a great loan, no closing costs and all the bells and whistles.
I tell L to ask for Good Faith Estimate from all of the people she is dealing with. She does and she gets this response from Countrywide that violates Federal RESPA Law and it’s in an email for crying out loud!
I guarantee that this Jennifer Small will not have a job by the end of tomorrow. But that’s the price you pay when you play this way and you break Federal Laws. Way to train your employees Mr. Mozilo.
Hi Moe,
Email from Countrywide:
Countrywide Home Loans
Jennifer_Smalll@countrywide.com
Email from me to L:
Oh my God. This is great. Can I pt this on my blog and take out your
name and email??????? YES, YES, by LAW they are REQUIRED to give you a
GFE. Sharks! She will switch and bait you in a heart beat.
Response from L:
yes, you can put it in the blog w/o my name and email. Oh gee this is not looking good for e refinance
Response from me:
I just don’t trust that BS. Think about it here L. Yes I can give
you this rate and fees, but my billion dollar company can’t follow the
LAW and place it in writing. It doesn’t get any fishier than that.
Follow Up Email From L:
Hi Moe,
Response from Jennifer Small at Countrywide:
Countrywide Home Loans
Jennifer_Smalll@countrywide.com
FYI Countrywide: Per the HUD website
RESPA required disclosures:
At the time of loan application
When borrowers apply for a mortgage loan, mortgage brokers and/or lenders must give the borrowers:
- a Special Information Booklet, which contains consumer information regarding various real estate settlement services. (Required for purchase transactions only) and
- a Good Faith Estimate (GFE) of settlement costs, which lists the charges the buyer is likely to pay at settlement. This is only an estimate and the actual charges may differ. If a lender requires the borrower to use a particular settlement provider, then the lender must disclose this requirement on the GFE.
- a Mortgage Servicing Disclosure Statement, which discloses to the borrower whether the lender intends to service the loan or transfer it to another lender. It also provides information about complaint resolution.
If the borrowers don’t get these documents at the time of application, the lender must mail them within three business days of receiving the loan application.
Popularity: 5% [?]
Nov 7th, 2007 at 4:29 am
mortgages are being put in the government’s hands now with that new bill passing
Nov 7th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Moe, lets do this. This would really send a message. But unfortunately Americans like to get steam rolled and the DO NOTHING about it. All hey do is turn on the TV, crack a beer and just go down with the ship. It’s a shame that our country’s citizens do nothing.
Nov 7th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Moe, great idea. While we are at it, let’s ask these wonderful lenders and lawyers for the lenders why they REFUSE to accept short sale deals at this stage in the game!!!
Nov 7th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
New mortgages yes but not the ones we have now, you know the 2 million plus exploding ARMs’ that are destroying our economy. Those are not in the governments hands.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 12:06 am
OK, you make the signs and I’ll get the bull horn!
Nov 8th, 2007 at 12:08 am
I seriously think we could all send a message to these lenders and just hole up in our homes and say “HELL NO WE WONT GO!”
Because they want to buy time at the expense of peoples lives and the economy. Just so they look good is all.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 12:49 am
Moe,
If a homeowner goes into default and it is found out that TILA, RESPA, ETC. was violated, do you think that threatening the lender with legal action will cause them to stop the foreclosure? This could be a good tactic to use even if no violations are evident. You have to play hardball with these predators.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 1:15 am
There are specific TILA violations which can make a loan rescindable. Once these statutory violations are identified, a borrower may rescind the loan. Upon rescission, the lender has no security interest, and thus no right to foreclose.
- Paul
Nov 8th, 2007 at 1:41 am
How would one go about doing that? Let’s say I took out a loan in 2004 and now I am in default. Lender threatens foreclosure. I examine my documents and believe there are TILA, RESPA, etc violations. What do I do now? Call HUD, the FTC, state banking office, etc. In other words who has the authority to stop the lender before the auction? Also is there a checklist available on the internet that guides me as to what to look for in my docs to see if there was a violation?
Nov 8th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Doesn’t look like she is in violation. She was just requesting L’s documents so she could get accurate figures. She is correct that most GFE’s do not reflect accurate numbers. Sometimes it’s a dummy LO and sometimes the customer doesn’t rely accurate information. Regardless, she still has 3 days from the application date to respa and put together a GFE to the best of her ability based on what L told her. Even then, RESPA states the GFE is only an estimate. I would put money on it that if L doesn’t get back with Ms. Smalls, that she clicks a button and the RESPA is done by a completely different department.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Heads up, L’s name is still showing @ the beginning of the email trail.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
You are wrong. She was not requesting more documents from L. But saying she will receive this at closing which violates the law. Yes, I know the GFE is an estimate.
This is just clever scripting and lies by their call center. So what is this a telemarketer and not a loan officer? Ans she is giving loan quotes.
I know plenty of Countrywide ex loan officers and current LO’s. This is standard BS.
As far as the estimate goes. Countrywide does thousands and thousands of loans and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to get they fees pretty damn close to what they will be from Countrywide.
You must be an loan officer that uses the smoke and mirrors and the “estimate” clause to dupe your clients.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Will it make everyone feel better to place this woman on the unemployed list because she works for CW? This is the first and last time I will visit this website. There is something mentally ill about any person that delights in someone’s demise. She had 3 days. It sounds like Moe just tried to trap her in to saying she couldn’t give him a GFE. I can’t see a bait and switch in here. Just procrastination. I agree with J. Are you really that jealous of Mozilo? Or did they take a loan from you years ago and now you are just a hate filled, vindictive, out to get someone wothless Loan Officer? You need counseling in the worst way.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
You need to remember that upon making an application for a mortgage, any lender is required by law to provide a GFE, TIL and other appropriate disclosures to the borrower. This is true even if a decision on the application hasn’t been made yet.
By showing an inability to provide a GFE, the borrower should run to someone who is more reputable and in a better financial position to properly fund the loan.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
What if the CW Loan Officer did not take the full application and run credit. if that’s the case then they are not required to send out the RESPA documents…And would be a pretty good explaination of why she could nopt generate a GFE. (I’m not defending CW, they are pretty DIRTY, it just seems like there is something else to this.)
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Are you sure she actually applied? She may have been like most refi rate shoppers who just call and want to know your rate before they tell you too much about themselves.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
I trapped her. LOL. I am just copying and pasting an email conversation that I had nothing to deal with, except instructing L to obtain a GFE.
Yes, I am not happy at all with the way Countrywide and what they are doing to struggling borrowers. It make my blood boil as they lie and cheat the American people.
Just procrastination, oh my Lord. You must be an out of work 745 beemer driving loan officers that is looking around your home and your beemer you cannot pay for, bought on the backs of borrowers you placed/duped in toxic loans and you are now losing your dream of riches and glory that went down with the subprime glory days. Oh what a shame.
Mr. Mozillo can kiss my white ass and you can join him. You must go to the same tanning bed together. Or you applied for a job there, huh?
I’m actually a very happy guy and I enjoy what I do.
Thanks for stopping by and don’t let the door slam you in the ass on the way out!
By the way this blog is for homeowners and not whining loan officers. However loan officers that have a sense of humor and don’t get butt hurt by the truth can stop by and comment and tell me what an ass I am anytime. In fact I invite it.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
She applied, credit ran and all and was quoted a no fee Jumbo loan at 6.75% on 1 million.
This was a full application.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Moe, I don’t see any mention that L had actually applied with CW; RESPA states that a GFE and TIL are required AT THE TIME OF or within 3 days of application, not before. If this is the case, you owe Jennifer at CW an apology.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
It’s not clear if the borrower “submitted” an application. It may be just “verbal” conversations with the L.O.
A GFE, TIL, etc. is only required by law when a completed application is received.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Oops. Thanks Anon.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
I am in the mortgage business. In what this person did could potentially be wrong, but she could also be right.
If a person applies for a mortgage, then a Good Faith Estimate has to be issued within 3 business days from a lender. However, to actually apply for the mortgage, all documents required for the loan need to be submitted to the lender. Example: income documents, bank statements, copy of current mortgage statement, and a copy of a credit report…ETC. This needs to be done to verify if it is an actual application. Otherwise, it is considered a PRE-QUALIFICATION, which does not require a Good Faith Estimate. The facts here have to be accurate to accuse anyone of fraudulent activity. If all of the above was received to the a lender than a Good Faith Estimate is required to be sent and this Countrywide Loan Originator would be wrong. However, to most lenders many people request costs, and rates and shop those costs around to other lenders. This costs each specific lender time, supplies, and money.
If an actual application was not taken then it is just a PRE-QUALIFICATION or a QUOTE REQUEST, and I am sorry to say to all of you that the Loan Originator from Countrywide would have done her job correctly.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Can someone comment on my response to the Mr. Molinaro?
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Tom is correct, sounds like this was just a prequal. Moe you can go back to being just fat now, not a fat happy kid
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
doesnt look like any laws were broken here. did she pay the requisite application fee (required even on their “no cost refi”)? was the loan locked? if not then she hasn’t even submitted an application.
even if she did put in an app cw still has 3 days to get all necessary disclosures to her.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
There is nothing more inaccurate than a TIL from a call center. So many of the customary charges, e.g. escrow, appraisal etc. are 3rd party and very different from state to state. When a Countrywide loan office talks in generalities about a loan they are not required to furnish a TIL. If they go further and actually take an application, then the system put in place at Countrywide moves the process to a compliance worker who sends out the proper disclosers within the legal time frame .Shame on you for jumping on Jennifer Small. Lots of the call center gals are single moms trying to make a living. The glee you take at the thought of someone losing their job is shameful. And you are wrong about her being in violation. Talk about a tempest in a teapot!
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
C/W has specific ways of doing things “There Way”, she is just a grain of sand, cut her some slack, go for the real fish that can actually make a difference in the training of call center employees. She only does what they say she can. Not trying to defend her, but personal experience states, if you buck the countrywide system, you end up on the outside looking in. Regardless of if it is respa or not, they do it there way, make a challenge and loose your job……I know
Nov 8th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
A GFE? Don’t get your panties in a twist, until the loan program is selected and the interest rate locked in, a GFE is not worth the paper it’s printed on. Why? At the time of loan application, the lender/broker can only disclose their own fees. What they cannot disclose is the rate, the prepayment penalty, yield spread premiums, service release premiums and in the case of brokers, lenders’ points until the loan is approved and locked in. This is why I have told my congressmen instead of the knee jerk solutions they have to this problem, the best way to solve it is to require an RESPA package to be sent to borrowers and signed prior to the release of loan documents once the program and rate have been locked in. No more “bait and switch”. But this solution is entirely simple and guaranteed to solve the issue so it ill never be implemented. BTW, as a mortgage broker, every time we change the program etc, we always send new GFEs so our borrowers NEVER surprised when they go to escrow to sign their documents.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Jennifer… have you seen this link …this is what angelo will do when he finds out how great of an employee you are..
http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/1611345
Nov 8th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Once the credit report is pulled and GFE, TIL must be issued. It isn’t upon income documentation being returned to the lender, the Respa Documents must mailed within 3 days from the date credit has been pulled. I too am in the industry and have been an u/w for 20+ years. If CW pulled L’s credit report, they are required to issue an initial estimated GFE and TIL within 3 days. If they didn’t they have violated RESPA laws.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Once a credit report is pulled, that is considerd an application and RESPA must be followed. It isn’t upon return of income documentation.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
I too have dealt with CW’s lies. I found a client that had already had their house appraised that was ordered by the CW LO, and my client hadn’t received any disclosures. The CW LO took his credit card over the phone and banged it for $500 for the appraisal. I contacted the appraiser to switch the title on the report, and he said since it was CW he couldn’t doit. This CW LO was calling the client 4x’s daily, hounding them to get stips in. This CW LO was quoting 5.75% on a 30fx with a specific mo/pymnt. I broke out my trusty HP12c, calculated with the loan amnt., rate, term that the CW LO was quoting and guess what, the monthly payment didn’t match the 5.75%, it was actually 8.5%.
Oh, did I mention that they’re my client now?
Nov 8th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
This message is for Moe, and everyone who is posting “kill countrywide” type messages on this website. I don’t like countrywide any more than the next person, but it’s possible they’re technically within the bounds of RESPA here. The main thing to consider is whether “L” actually made application or not. This article says that “L” is trying to get a loan modification from countrywide; did she do the loan with countrywide to begin with? If not, then it’s possible that they don’t have all her current financial information, and she may not have given it to the countrywide call center person. They “offering her a loan” might be as little as the call center person saying “we have a program that I think would be good for you”, without making an actual loan decision. This happens a lot.
If this is the case, then she DID NOT make loan application (which is considered to be when the applicant gives the lender all information necessary to make a loan decision), and the 3 day rule for GFE, TIL & other disclosures being required to be sent to her do not apply. It’s good practice to send out a GFE, but not required if the person does not make application; the call center’s person saying she might be able to get her a copy of her screen may be as simple as her not having loan processing software at her call center, which would allow her to create a GFE for “L”. Therefore, it’s possible that the call center person is within the rules of RESPA, and Moe’s “check this out, countrywide is in violation of RESPA!” rant is wasted breath. If I’m talking with someone, and they request a GFE, if they have not given me all the information I need to help the lender make a loan decision, then technically I’m not required to send her a GFE. Anyone who’s studied the laws applicable to this should know this.
Moe, instead of your “let’s kill all lenders” mentality, perhaps you should check the laws first, before you post personal e-mails to a website. You’re in an actionable position, caused by your hatred of Countrywide & your malicious actions, and it’s possible you may be served with papers over this. Better get a good lawyer, just in case.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Not necessarily, there are 14 pieces of information that must be obtained for an inquiry to be considered an application, and even within those guidelines, there is some discretion placed upon each lender as to what they define as an application. The general requirement is that there is enough information to make a credit decision. I don’t know Countrywide’s definition or procedures, but I am sure that they wouldn’t allow a call center person to issue a GFE. There are too many third party fees that need to be disclosed and those vary by location and other factors. I am sure that they have a special department that is in charge of disclosing correctly.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
no surprise here at all, i alwas said
its only matter of time until countrywide will go under
Nov 8th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
I’ve seen a lot of happy people do what ever it is they do, both good and bad. Your response to Patti is no different than a gentleman helping an old lady across the street or the thug who steals her purse. People do what they do because it makes them happy, both good and bad. I hope you’re correct in that “L” actually applied for a loan because Libel is a serious offense if you’re incorrect especially being that you inadvertently displayed “L’s” real name for everyone to see. I will indeed follow up on this information myself. If Jennifer is disciplined as a result of your posting, and did nothing wrong I will advise her on what actions she needs to take. By the way I’m a home owner, and I’m the compliance director of a very large corporation. I’m very well aware of federal regulations too. And, before you jump on the band wagon again I’m not a BMW driving, can’t afford to pay my bills, crook like you seem to insinuate most loan officers are. What I’ve seen from personal experience is that both clients and employees play dumb when things don’t go their way. Trust me, I’ve had more clients lie to me than employees, but I’ve never forced anyone to sign on the dotted line. “Forget reading anything, just give me my damn money!”
Unless “L” actually gave a “complete” application, and credit was pulled, and a credit decision was made Jennifer did nothing wrong. Also, it is perfectly legal for general information to be given to potential clients, whether it be rates, fees or terms. In addition if Jennifer made a “soft” credit pull and based her information on that no laws have been broken period. It is possible “L” is not giving you the whole truth about the depth of her inquiry. For your sake you should hope “L” is telling you everything and that she isn’t the one who is pulling the wool over your eyes. It takes more than just filling out an application Moe.
Personally I think someone fired your sorry ass for breaking the law, and that’s why you’re so hell bent on trying to screw someone over. JMO
Nov 8th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
RESPA is only applicable if the person has applied. It doesn’t sound like this person has applied yet. She is only in the inquiry stage. By the way, why did she have to go down to an 80% LTV, there are plenty of 90% LTV mortgage products available?
Nov 8th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Everyone seems to not like countrywide here for some horrible reasons. Well, I will be the first to tell you. Your gonna wish soon they remain in business. They are currently in the realm of going under. Overall they have some great products for all Americans and are very competitive with the mortgage market compared to others.
They have been a leader in the industry and make a large amount of exceptions to standard rules of finance to benefit the consumer, which puts Countrywide into a high risk position. The mortgage industry is changing fast. A new bill was passed today and is headed to the House of Representatives… HR 3915: Mortgage Reform and Anti-Predatory Lending Act of 2007. If this actually passes and becomes law, then all Americans are in for a very disturbing future. This bill eliminates whats called YSP, which is Yield Spread Premium. This is a percentage money of a mortgage paid to the lender, loan officers, mortgage professionals and investors. YSP is mostly why people lend money for mortgages. It usually is between 1% to 3% of the mortgage amount. Granted, a rate increase (usually very small, IE: .25% to 1%) on the standard base rate for a mortgage is usually increased due to this YSP. However, if YSP is eliminated then those costs will go straight to the consumer. For example: The average payout is 2%. So imagine the client above taking out a mortgage for $1,120,000.00 at 80% loan to value and would have to pay out of pocket $22,400 to the lender plus title, insurance, escrow and deed recordings, if this new law passes. The no cost, no fee loan will disappear. The borrower above had to borrow $100,000.00 just to bring her equity to the right loan to value just to get the loan done. Imagine all across America, refinance and home purchase costs going up 10 fold. This is what our government thinks will benefit Americans.
In another note:
Americans love to spend, love to charge credit cards with things they don’t need, buy expensive cars they don’t need, and buy expensive houses they don’t need. I see it everyday. Even cable today costs an average of $150.00 a month. ONE HUNDRED and FIFTY DOLLARS for TELEVISION. I mean come on….My point is that with all the bickering about the mortgage industry today, most of the blame needs to be directed to the majority of consumers. We are a society that wants what we can’t afford. The mortgage market gave people what they wanted and then Americans realized they couldn’t afford what they wanted. Now the mortgage market is to blame? I couldn’t tell you how many people I told and still tell that they can not afford materialistic things or bigger homes they than they have.. And you know what, they do not want to hear it and end up going somewhere else, anywhere else to get what they initially wanted, until they realize it is too late. The lady above could of easily bought a house cash for $200,000.00 and save the rest of her money for good old retirement!
Nov 8th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
i would be more impressed by this if i could see the dates of the emails and also proof that this woman has in fact applied for a mortgage..
Nov 8th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
AMEN TO TODD
Nov 8th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
You all need to get a grip, and some better manners, too. Check your ECOA regs (updated by commentary in 2004) and you will find that there is latitude in the definition of “application.” Each institution defines what constitutes an app and must consistently apply the definition. However, if credit is pulled and reviewed with adverse results, an adverse action notice must be sent. In a refinance, while most companies provide a GFE, it may be acceptable to provide an itemization of amount financed prior to closing in lieu of a GFE at application. The GFE is a better tool if one cares about having a well informed customer and is confident about the content.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
I think you need to revisit RESPA–only need to run credit and take application, and quote loan terms.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
I was wrong on this statement below, mis-spoke. My apologies. A Full 1003(application) must be taken, and credit report pulled to send out a GFE.
…………………………………
However, to actually apply for the mortgage, all documents required for the loan need to be submitted to the lender. Example: income documents, bank statements, copy of current mortgage statement, and a copy of a credit report…ETC. This needs to be done to verify if it is an actual application.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Mozzila and Bernanke make a cute couple.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
You have to laugh at this. This is a great example of why we need much better Lic. standards. How many different examples of when do you have to give a GFE to a customer, are posted on here. When is an application an application. I know the standard that I used for my company. There is now clear guidance. Do you use the RESPA or the TILA. The thing I do know is “I will provide will be accurate when you receive the documents and when you sign closing documents.” is a wrong ansewer.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Countrywide’s L/O Originator software will not allow a GFE to be produced in the standard format. The L/O has to get the Processor to do it and they are typically too busy. The L/O can provide a Closing Cost Estimator (CCE) which conttains all of the GFE info just not in the industry wide used format. As a former C/W L/O I do not believe their is any intent to violate RESPA but it is hard to explain to a borrower why every lender in town can provide a GFE but you can only provide a CCE (unless you can convince a processor to drop what she is doing). At the end of the day in my mind there is no excuse for an L/O to not be able to provide a GFE in tghe industrywide and RESPA required format.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
I am a Long time LO- 24 yrs in the biz. I too have a Countrywide loan, and at the time I applied, did not receive GFE, TILS, and proper disclosures for over 30 days. I had to call them several times. I could have made a big deal out of it, but I didn’t because I knew I could hang them later! I might have to do that now,to get them to give me a better loan.
Their CEO cashed in millions of dollars in stock before it plummeted. I believe he withheld earnings to manipulate the stock price–hmm perhaps the SEC investigation is justified. Mr. Mozilo had the audacity to profess Countrywide did not participate in predatory lending practices. He conveniently forgot about his wholesale division where they funded billions of these nasty option arms with prepays! I’m sure he wished he would have retired last year! The public doesn’t know the half of it!
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Exactly.
I am not here to bash loan officers and brokers or Countrywide. But if they deserve a bashing then they will receive one. Plain and simple.
This is the most commonly abused law in the industry, RESPA. Most lenders and brokers place them in at doc signing and then back date them to precisely within 3 days from when the credit report is ran.
I see this all the time because I work for a law office and we specialize in predatory lending.
Countrywide is the King of the Sea when it comes to predatory lending.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
i agree with your assessment of people in general, however, I have been an LO for 24 yrs-honesty and integrity was my priority. I know none of my clients are in foreclosure because of my greed and or their stupidity. I will tell you my experience with Countrywide was an no doubt a RESPA violation. I applied for a home loan and did not receive my proper disclosures for over 30 days after applying. I called several times for them–with no avail. I knew I could hang them if I had to, but I didn ‘t. It all turned out ok and I wouldn’t have closed if closing documents were not in order. Countrywide does have issues, but in the financial industry–they ALL do!
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
Does anyone have actual knowlege of the industry? LOs are not afraid to send out GFEs b/c of the “estimate rule” mentioned before. You can’t get underwriting to produce closing docs without a signed GFE anyway.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
AMEN! I am laughing!
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
I am a former Countrywide employee…they do this all the time!! In fact when I left I contacted HR, employee relations and the fraud department to report fraud that was brought to my managers attention several time but nothing was ever done. In fact I quote “if you can’t beat them, then join them” was his response to the situation. I faxed over copies of huds where the lo “moved”fees around to get more then the 6%seller concession, added “payoffs” and many other things (making up employers,paycheck stubs, VOE’s,etc). To my surprise I still have not heard anything back (it’s been well over 6 months)and the lo still works there!!! Upper management is great at sweeping things under the rug as long as they are all making money….
Class action law suite anyone??? I still have docs and emails to HR to confirm information…..
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
I was a manager at a Countrywide retail branch for 3 years and yes, we had access to GFE’s and were obligated to send them out. However, during my three years I can say we maybe sent out 1 a month. In spite of funding over a 100 loans per month. If the borrower asked we would send them, otherwise, we never did.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
You wouldn’t be laughing if you owned CW stock. Can you spell BK anyone?
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Credit was pulled. That constitutes meeting the ’spirit’ of taking an application even if a complete 1003 with supporting documentation is not provided. Trying to hide behind a ‘14 point’ checklist to prove it’s an app and not a prequal is ludicrous. A pre-qual means no credit was pulled.
91% of CFC’s Option ARM loans funded in 2006 were stated doc or no doc (their own stats). By the logic of some poster’s comments, since no documentation was offered, no GFE was needed. That again is ludicrous. All that matters is that credit was pulled, for the intent by the lender to render a credit decision, to trigger the requirement to issue a GFE.
The u/w’s comment stands.
Why should a borrower need to ask for a GFE, btw? It’s RESPA, and all lenders must comply. Jennifer could have chosen - perhaps should be trained to - tell applicants that one will be provided within 3 days. That would make her potentially compliant (provided the processing team does their job).
Compliance might sometimes be onerous, but it is still necessary. Erring on the side of informing an applicant they will be provided with a GFE, or a Statement of Credit Denial, within 3 days, is the prudent step.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Unfortunately the RESPA police will not go after Countrywide. Ask Countrywide why a $350 appraisal cost $425 could it be because their vendor that orders the appraisals and QA’s them is owned by them. I thought you couldn’t charge more then the actual third party fee. Always finding loopholes.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Here’s a suggestion. How bout “L” ask to speak with the branch manager or maybe even the regional VP regarding this matter.
It’s great that “L” wants a second opinion, but keep in mind that within this industry not all borrowers are forth coming with the information. Borrowers seem to think that all they have to do is tell someone about there situation and a rate is magically populated.
Burt is clearly mistaken. He is not familiar with the practices at Countrywide, or I would think he is completely lazy. A LADA can be printed for anyone. And at Countrywide it is mandatory that an opening packet be provided within 3 days, of obtaining a commitment. If “L” is shopping for a rate, it’s best she keep shopping. Otherwise, provide Jennifer with what she needs in order to get it done.
Furthermore, Countrywide uses Landsafe for the appraisal. So chances are the property isn’t even going to appraiser for what she needs. Landsafe is a affiliate of COuntrywide, and is extremely conservative. Believe it or not this does protect the borrower in most cases.
Also. try reading some of the news on Countrywide other than people hating the company. You almost get the same feeling with the Boston Red Sox, and New England Patriots. Everyone wants to try to kill you when you at the top:
http://www.nhc.org/index/News-PR-102407
http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/24/real_estate/details_on_new_Countrywide_plan/index.htm?postversion=2007102515
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
I used to be a countrywide loan officer and I was also a loan officer for some other lenders. The reason that we would not give out GFE was because some people would not commit to the loan and the only way that the loan was committed was by paying for the appraisal up front. Once the appraisal fee was taken then and only then was the loan “locked” and not open to changes due to market conditions. I know she said this a no cost but we still took the money up front and then reimbursed it just to make sure the the person was committed to the loan.
I worked for a few home lenders and I have to say that Countrywide was probably the most honest. The reason they are getting the bad rap is because the are the most known. The minute someone was caught doing something illegal they were fired. The reason the girl probably didnt want to give her a GFE is because GFE’s are automatically sent out as soon as the loan is committed. The person receives the RESPA and can at anytime have their money refunded as long as the appraisal is not done, and believe me, all LO’s were trained to to say so. The LO has no authority to send out RESPAS which is why this LO would show her the breakdown of the the loan to the best of her abilities. Please dont have this young lady fired. Quit being so scandolous cause there is no scandal.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
im still waiting for moe to provide proper evidence for his accusations..i have contacted counrtywide there is no such email address..he has yet to give dates for the emails and application dates to see if they are in compliance with the law..there are many thing that are disturbing with this scenario..for one seems she may have overextending herself with a $1.4 million mortgage..obviously she can pay it since she has been current.secondly if she cannot then she may want to think like a responsible adult and sell the property instead trying to live beyond her means..you seem to want to nit-pick there are many other lenders out there that will go up to 90% ltv..uneducated people like you disgust me..i must say some posters on here need to be a little bit more educated on the laws you are a good example of why people want licensing done in this profession..in all fairness we all should be up to date with our federal and state laws..
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
The anti-predatory legislation passed the House banking committee and now goes to the full House for a vote. Imagine that, no one understands the old law and now they will be passing a new one. No need to worry though since the new law outlaws YSP so all you LOs that are remaining will also be out of business soon. Remember who is behind this bill, Barney Frank, that paragon of virtue and ethical behavior who was running a gay escort service out of his house in the 1980s. Is this a great country or what??!!!
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
She was initially trying to get a loan modification with Countrywide. She could not refinance because the LTV. She borrowed $100,000 from family members to bring the LTV down to where she can refinance.
They did run her credit, they did take a verbal application. Which is an APPLICATION.
You know that box you check on the silly 1003 that you are required to fill out when taking a verbal application which by law is an application.
She, meaning Jennifer Small, per L, took the over the phone, ran credit and quoted a rate. That triggers RESPA disclosure rule.
I’m sure you were sending the informational booklet also? Right?
I think you need to reread the laws or go back to loan officer school. Oh wait there is not one. My mistake.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
So a call center does not fall under Federal RESPA laws just because they are a call center. Come on. They are a billion dollar lender and they know these fees. It’s called computer programs.
Come on guys this is so very common.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
They can give out CLOSING COST ESTIMATES in Countrywide but can’t give out GFE until a full application is taken and sent to the borrower with the disclosures when the application is either floating or locked. Only reason Countrywide is taking heat is because they’re number one and others want to take them down. It’s like when Firestone tires had their issues with tires catching on fire and such after those incidents other stories started pooring out about how a “former” employee told media that they they were neglegent in making those tires etc.. or example Clinton after the whole Lewinsky thing came out there was a line of other woman who was accusing him of stuff etc… it’s how media portrays it and this country FEEDS ON DRAMA.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Bingo! You got it right! You shoud get a prize for that!
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
So a call center does not fall under Federal RESPA laws just because they are a call center. Come on. They are a billion dollar lender and they know these fees. It’s called computer programs.
Come on guys this is so very common.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
WOW! Good thing you are not employed with Countrywide now! You must have had some really honest LOs. Had the consumers felt they were mislead or baited, you would be in Court explaining why you did not adhere to their compliance guidelines. I am pretty sure as a new hire for Countrywide they force you to take a course in “Compliance”.
Hope the statute of limitations has run-out for those borrowers, and they didn’t have any of those nasty option arms. Sounds like an invite to a lawsuit.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Sorry guys but she hasn’t violated anything. At Countrywide it is not an application until it is locked in there system. They don’t even have a way to produce one otherwise. You don’t have to disclose unless it is a app. If she has told them she is going forward and to lock, it is not an application. Therefore no disclosures are required. Did she lock the loan in?
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Sorry you are incorrect. If there is no decision, and you don’t have a loan to offer yet, how would you disclose a GFE? No loan yet, no GFE.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Here’s the bottom line. If you’re a loan officer and someone asks you for a GFE, give them the damn thing. If your system is set up correctly, it takes three minutes to plug in a few numbers. Let them comparison shop. Remember, here’s how tough it is:
Plug closing cost scenario
Hit “email form”
write potential borrower’s email address
click send.
This will make you prompt, courteous and if you do your job correctly, ACCURATE with your GFE. OVERESTIMATE so there are no surprises.
My borrowers have no problem with an overestimate, but quite understandably, they get pissy when they are short to close.
Get a life for those of you that piss around with “well, technically, you have three days…”
SHut the hell up and go sell Herbalife, so that the rest of us professionals can continue to uphold quality workmanship.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
Fred,
You’re wrong. The YSP debacle (that’s exactly what it is) applies to non-prime loans. The legislation clearly identifies what is a “PRIME” loan, therefore leading one to understand that anything other than that is SUBPRIME, or NON PRIME. In essence, if there is a fixed term of five years or more the rate cannot exceed 3% of the comparable treasury yield at the time of application (most likely the 10 year or the 30 year bond.)
Of more substance is the national loan officer licensing for ALL loan officers, which includes bank tellers, telemarketers, etc. Finally, some conventional wisdom to NOT allow a bank teller to quote a rate or a telemarketer to bother you during dinner.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Quality workmanship huh…I tell you what the way you say to do it always ended up with a deal that never looked anything like that initial RESPA. I think that were all arguing about the wrong thing. Just tell people to learn to read what they sign cause 9 times out of ten the RESPA is never what they sign at closing.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Too busy? Are you friggin kidding me? Their originations are off over 40% this year…
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Sorry you are incorrect. If there is no decision, and you don’t have a loan to offer yet, how would you disclose a GFE? No loan yet, no GFE.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Jennifer has 3 days to get the GFE out!!!!! How long have you been waiting
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Well, 12 months worth of taxes, 15 months of HOI and my fees… the bank fees are what they are, title is set by the state and I have a list of providers fees I plug in. I don’t miss by more than $100 on my initial GFE, unless taxes are FAR less. You don’t even know who I am, so how can you criticize a method that has worked successfuly for 15 years? I am not personally attacking you, so please do not personally attack my methods of proper, full disclosure that takes three minutes, Alex. I do a GFE for ANYONE that asks for one, and it takes less time than it does to refill a coffee cup. Oh yea, I send them a TIL with an actual APR too… Good luck telling the judge that “the RESPA DOCS told them what they were getting into. They should read more…”
That same mentality produced $2 trillion in negative amortization loans. Oops. I mean, “Deferred Interest.”
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
She did nothing wrong….I am in Compliance at a mortgage co and she is within the scope of federal regulations.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Sorry it is not. It is a prequal. Until it is locked in the system and she wants to move forward with the loan is it an app. To apply she has to submit loan docs and then move forward. Otherwise it is just prequal even with credit pulled. Check FDIC.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Checked FDIC and everyone that is stating she violated is incorrect.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Don’t confuse “Legal” with “Ethical.”
The proper thing to do is give the customer what they want. While she might not “legally” have to, ethically, it is her ficuiary responsibility to assist the customer in making a wise decision with regard to her financing options.
I love the way everyone on this blog argues the technical sense; particularly when so many agree that it’s too confusing.
Make is simple and be as ethical as possible.
Why is this so hard to comprehend?
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Sorry you are not correct. Check RESPA at FDIC and you will see.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Damn typos…
FIDUCIARY…
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Wow, how long ago did you work there? I worked there until 6 months ago and there was a whole GFE department that created them. And you were in Deep doodoo if you didn’t send it to them. Plus for the last 1 yr it was all imaged from the system and they forever made copies of the docs that were sent out in file imaging.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
If you are a former Account Executive at Full Spectrum and you reported RESPA violations and unethical lending to Ethics Hotline, and you had been blackballed, you are not alone!!!!
I was forced to quit and my house got foreclosed by my lender/employer.
My case is in arbitration, and I am being offered 2 months of backpay to settle my case.
Anyone out there with a similar story?
Nov 8th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Typical Countrywide “splitting hairs” B.S. What’s so hard about giving the lady a GFE? CW is so screwed up. This is in the same territory as CW forcing borrowers to use Landsafe (a company they own) then slipping in the little disclosure at closing. It may not be the biggest sin in the business but it’s a deceptive practice and one CW routinely uses.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
So a call center does not fall under Federal RESPA laws just because they are a call center. Come on. They are a billion dollar lender and they know these fees. It’s called computer programs.
Come on guys this is so very common.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Sorry Susan that was meant for someone
else.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Ill tell you the main reason that I never gave a GFE is because the person would not commit and then they would take a few days and sometimes even a month to think about it. They come back and want the same deal…unfortunately the market most likely changed, hell sometimes the market would change by noon. I told people up front their closing costs, interest rate, payment with or without escrow and anything else their heart desired. I would also let them know that those were subject to change until the moment they decided to commit. Another thing was people wanting GFE with no credit checks, Im sorry but I have more important things to do then mess with people who want to sit there and tell me they have an 800 FICO, and then find that I wasted my time coming up with the best loan program when in fact their FICO is more like a 550, happened everyday.
Nov 8th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
The young lady at Countrywide did nothing wrong as the 3days had not yet expired! What’s more disturbing is the fact that you are all willing to sit and bash an employee that 1. Hasn’t violate a law YET! 2. If in fact rules were broken, it is the EMPLOYING COMPANY that is at fault, not the obviously untrained worker! To list her name and bash her reputation publically while sparing the name of your friend is in my opinion TERRIBLE!! The C-Wide employee should have remained nameless! After all; I;m guessing if you all look back at your own careers, I’m sure mistakes have been made by you and you were never hung in public for them!
Don’t get me wrong, I spent 6yrs working for C-Wide and recently lost my own home due to a loan with them that adjusted from 6.5% to 11.25% in just 6mos. During the process of attempting a repayment agreement/modification they raised my interest rate! WOW! Can you say INSULT TO INJURY??
Nonetheless, it is still the GIANT that we have issue with. Don’t ruin a young lady’s career simply because we all despise her boss!
PD
Nov 8th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
I thought once you had enough to make a credit decision it was a app and CW doesn’t pull credit until after the 1003 is completed I think a GFE is required. But does it realy matter the respa police are not going to kick down the door
Nov 8th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Thank you, because as a former employee of CW I know that this is just the way things were done. And till this day I will say CW was far more ethical then other smaller home lenders. I think that the consumers need to step back and accept some responsibility because when shows like “Flip this House” and imfomercials like the one with those two midgets that would air late night were on no one was complaining.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 12:05 am
Send her to me and I”ll give her a GFE right now!!!!!!!
Nov 9th, 2007 at 12:07 am
Owe did I mention I work for Countrywide too!!!
Nov 9th, 2007 at 1:12 am
You are actually saying this and believe this?
“At Countrywide it is not an application until it is locked in there system. They don’t even have a way to produce one otherwise.”
Explain to me what an app is to “Countrywide: please?
Then you say.
“If she has told them she is going forward and to lock, it is not an application. Therefore no disclosures are required. Did she lock the loan in?”
What the hell? So, it is not an app until she locks the loan or if she locks then there is no app? You are confusing me.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 1:20 am
So what is a decision? A decision by whom? The client or Countrywide?
If a rate and fees are quoted and credit is ran, along with an app by phone, then RESPA is triggered. Regardless of decisons or fluff BS.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 1:22 am
Fred,
Your question was buried in this long thread… nice to see a spirited debate going on. This is a hot topic and people need to be talking about it. This is information that needs to be spread.
As to your question, when TILA violations are discovered, the course of action to take depends on what violations are discovered. My law firm focuses on those violations which give a borrower an extended right to rescind, effectively undoing the loan and crediting that borrower back all the interest and fees paid to the lender (and broker or certain other third parties). This credit comes off the amount owed such that the borrower may get a new loan for a lesser amount (and thus a decreased monthly payment). If a foreclosure is in the the works, a rescission voids the lenders security interest thereby making a foreclosure illegal. Actually stopping the foreclosure may require court action through an injunction.
There are also some California laws that come into play when a non-English speaking borrower negotiates a loan in his (or her) native language and then signs loan documents in English. These “contracts” are also voidable and may give the same result as a rescission.
The process gets quite complicated and my explanations here are general, but an experienced mortgage lawyer should be able to handle it for you.
- Paul
DISCLAIMER: My posts are for general information purposes only & are not legal advice. Please consult a local attorney for advice with your issue. I try to be accurate, but I make no guarantees. That is, I enjoy taking part in discussions, but don’t hold me to anything I write.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 1:25 am
See above.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 1:35 am
So what is a decision? A decision by whom? The client or Countrywide?
If a rate and fees are quoted and credit is ran, along with an app by phone, then RESPA is triggered. Regardless of decisons or fluff BS.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 1:38 am
As a former post funding audit supervisor, I saw ALL of the crap that is mentioned in these comments and MUCH more.
The funding side playing semantics and word games with clear rules is pathetic. But what is MORE pathetic is the funding side pushing back on our solid findings expecting us to rescind them. Then it gets political and we are told that we have to recscind solid findings.
Whether its CW some other lender, its all about getting the loan in and then sold. The truth (liar loans) and rules (RESPA) be damned.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 3:24 am
L spoke with someone in a call center- they take verbal info ONLY..Discuss rate type of loan, etc.. to CW discussing any of this information is a loan application..BUT the call center input the info then forwards this to a branch located closed to the client to actually process the loan. The local branch then validates the info and then provides the client with ALL disclosures within the 3 days. Call centers do not have the ability to print out any documents for the clients based on a phone call.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 3:34 am
HR 3915: Mortgage Reform and Anti-Predatory Lending Act of 2007. Based on the news I saw tyoday- This bill passed! I know for a fact CW has already sent out a directive that effective 11/19/07 this new guidelines are in place. Will be a major problem in financing down the road..Couldn’t qualify then (or shouldn’t have is some cases) will DEFINITELY NOT qualify now!!
Nov 9th, 2007 at 6:49 am
It’s so classic that with all these “experts” in the industry, no one bothered , or knew about, the fact that since this property is in Los Angeles that there are STATE requirements that also come to play. Any lender that even pre-qualifies must provide a MLDS (Mortgage Loan Disclosure Statement, bascially a GFE on steroids) within 3 days. This includes telephone interviews. Your signatures could be dated later but you must provide proof the form was printed and sent within the time limit.
Also, I love the “lenders have latitude on defining an application” nonsense. I would love to see you defending yourself as a loan professional against a federal or state auditor on the “grey area” of 3 day disclosure.
Or even better: Let’s say I run a company, lets call it Countywide Mortgage. I consider, in my corporate policy, that “application taken” means the day I show up to title to collect my commission check. I will be happy to issue a GFE/MLDS/TIL at that time.
Yeah right, that would go over well.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 11:09 am
We are all assuming that the credit was pulled. And so you know even if a person does not have a qualifying score, you are still obligated to walk them through the whole process, even charge for an appraisal if the client chooses. That too is RESPA.
Many times people call and don’t want there credit pulled, they want a quote on assumptions. After battling with these borrowers, then you give them a hypo. That doesn’t constitute respa, because your not basing your hypo on fact, merely fictious information.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Are you retarded? Everyone here knows that the disclosure regs vary from state to state! As for you fictious federal auditor statement?? WASTE of breath!
And, you last paragraph about C-Wide made absolutely No SENSE! If you want to contribute to the conversation then do so! If you want to make silly “I know more about loans then my 3 friends” type statements, there’s a forum out there somewhere for you.
Doby
Nov 9th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
I just bring all this up because there are people arguing that C-wide did nothing wrong. In the state of california, they did something wrong.
My last sentence did make sense. You are NOT allowed to interpret the rules as you like. Disclosure requirements are just that, Requirements.
Definition of Application is not a grey area.
Lastly, several folks in this thread presented themselves as “experts” by referencing RESPA and taking supposidly knowledgable stances regarding the legality of the disclosure, or lack therof.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Nope - you are wrong. Especially in the state I am in. Our state’s RESPA regulations state that upon time of a credit report, GFE and TIL must be issued. This is a basic question on our broker licensing exams.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Absolutely correct. Ask the company I worked for that got hit with huge compliance fines for this very issue.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
As someone that used to work in a Countrywide call center in Chandler, I can tell you that if there was an application taken, they most certainly will get a GFE — in fact, a verbal breakdown of ALL costs is part of the wrap-up script each L.O. reads at the end of a completed application (although, according to all policies, an application — as stated is the first discussion of loan terms, credit, etc.) While Countrywide may have other issues in their practice, one thing they cover themselves on is these type of violations — they have entire teams dedicated to listening to L.O. calls for Q.A., violations, etc.
And this woman, L, probably wasn’t complaining about her loan when she had a 1.4 million dollar home for a payment of a $400,000 home — I just love how it’s everyone elses fault. There is a reason you get 3 days right of recision — to read all your documents.
I am no longer with Countrywide for other reasons — umm slave labor anyone? — but as I said this is definitely not something Countrywide does. In the call center, you are supposed to ask manager approval before sending a GFE — most L.O.s there (kids right out of college, like Miss Small) just don’t ever ask because they don’t know. The GFE is readily available to be emailed to borrower etc from a .pdf.
The fact that this borrower is not educated in loans doesn’t warrant a violation.
AND FYI — a package does go out from the processing branch within 72 hours as per regulations. Take note, it must be mailed by 72 hour — not received.
Nov 9th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
That is why I’m glad people who know nothing are finally getting out of the industry. You worked in mortgages for 6 years and let your mortgage adjust? Unless you worked there cleaning desks and windows — you should’ve had some idea what was going on.
You should also know Countrywide doesn’t RAISE rates — you have a set index and margin when you signed your papers. It is not CW, or any other lenders fault, that you let your low rate expire — again were you complaining when you had a 6.5% and deserved 8.5%? And unless you got your loan before there were rate caps — your loan can only adjust a certain amount of points per year/quarter/half depending on your documents. I’d be interested to see your Note that allows for almost a 5% adjustment in the first 6 months — and to see what index you’re based on — mortgagex.com doesn’t show any that should’ve been that high. But, hey — thats what you get when you want ‘no fees, no points, no nothing.’
Nov 9th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
This is done to stop appraisal fraud. The borrower is allowed to pick their own appraiser, it just must be scheduled by the lender and they must be landsafe approved.
Come on, how could Countrywide get away with this stuff for so long — you guys all crack me up.
Nov 10th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
It is not a app until it is locked in the system. and she want to go forward with the loan. This site doesn’t allow you to edit you posts.
If she has not told them she is going forward and to lock, it is not an application. Therefore no disclosures are required. Did she lock the loan in
Nov 10th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
I’m not wrong. Check FDIC. Now maybe your state has different standards than the federal government but we are talk about general federal guidelines. Every state can impose stricter guidelines the FDIC. Go to there website and check.
Nov 10th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
The company you worked for must not have sent RESPA on loans that they considered apps. If you pulled credit doesn’t mean you offered a loan.. So how do you send a GFE? No loan offered, no terms to disclose. Also its not a loan until they agree to terms. Therefore no respa.
Nov 10th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
OK, loan officer school 101.
Most applications are taken by phone. Oh wait. Did I say “APPLICATION?” Yes, application, 1003. It doesn’t matter if that application is verbal or in person. It is an application. If it isn’t then what the hell is it?
OK, once they take the app, then as you say they discuss rate and type of loan. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm….NOW they are “quoting a rate bases on the APPLICATION, NOW, again LO 101, that triggers RESPA disclosure requirement.
I don’t give a flying f*#k what CW says they do or what the call center does, because that is against RESPA law if they are doing it as you say.
It amazes me that there are so many different answers on this post and most are based on how they were trained and not by the law.
Nov 10th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Jon,
Do you realize what you are saying? You are saying that Countrywide will not give you something in writing based on what they have verbally quoted until you LOCK the loan with them.
That is against the law sir. After an application is taken, verbally or in person and a rate is quoted then that triggers RESPA. Regardless if they lock the loan or not.
Sample Countrywide Discussion:
CW- OK, Mr. Borrower you will get a no closing costs loan at 6.75%. How does that sound?
Borrower says, “Great, but can you put that in writing via a good faith estimate so I can discuss it with my husband?”
CW - Oh no, no, that is not our policy. Not until you lock and commit to us. Once you prove you are our client, then and not until then will I put in writing what I am telling you on the phone.”
DO YOU REALIZE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?
Nov 13th, 2007 at 5:42 am
C’mon, there are 2 systems in banking or in broker world, 2 folders prospect and borrower. Banking side has 2 separate origination systems, prospecting and committed business. Disclosures are not required in prospect folder. If audited only one of the origination folders need be turned over to auditors. Therefore, originators that spend 8 hrs a day entering data, cold-calling, or taking massive numbers of calls all day are not required to kill trees to any borrower unless the borrower demonstrates intention to move forward in the loan process–then your 72 hours to disclose begins….right? Interested in further clarification or correction.
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Nov 22nd, 2007 at 7:48 pm
The preceding response is the most reasonable in this whole discussion. Much of this controversy is a result of “compliance” interpretation. Having worked in several environments including Countrywide, I have noted that the definition ofan “application” varies. With some it is defined at the point a credit report is run. At others it is defined at the point a complete application is taken, supportive documentation recieved AND when the borrower has asked for the process to begin.
The latter seems more logical to me. Many borrowers shop. They don’t want to move into processing, yet the LO needs a credit score to accurately price a loan. When a borrower requests a good faith estimate in this situation, it puts the LO in a tough spot. The CW LO can print a Closing Cost Estimate which should suffice. If the borrower want a GFE, they need to provide all the necessary information and documentation. Also, the prospect must agree or ask for the file to be processed. The LO officer can then send the file to the processor who must send out the GFE and other disclosures within 3 days.
Only in this way can the customer get the best GFE.
When a customer shops for a loan and asks several lenders for GFEs and provides limited information, they are likely to get misquoted. Some will feel that they have been low balled or mislead. Often loan offers will quote base-line rates. There are some 15 things that can effect an accurate rate quote. Without careful analysis of the documentation and credit, GFEs can be incorrect.
Finally, when is an application and application? In my opinion…when the borrower states or agrees that they are applying and cooperate with the neccessary documentation. That is the point the clock starts ticking on the GFE and TIL. A Closing Cost Estimate will have to suffice until that point.
Nov 24th, 2007 at 10:02 am
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Nov 29th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
All loan officer who did loans that went on foreclosures through countrywide are going to JAIL.
Feb 21st, 2008 at 8:00 pm
1. The GFE must be provided within 3 days of formal application (LO training 101 dummy). It can be mailed (since loan application not in person) so, the application and GFE can be mailed to the applicant and must be post marked within the 3 day notification period.
2. In addition, if the loan is a modification of an existing Countrywide (or any other servicer) more flexible rules apply since the client is dealing with the servicing organization and not a new loan, which requires a loan officer and the rules laid out in No. 1 apply.
So much for whoever you are that is giving inaccurate commentary and practicing law (which I see no mention of you having a law degree or being a registered bar member). So, unless you want additional liabilities for slander and misrepresentation, I recommend that you rescind you statements an errors and only comment on things of which you know.
For the borrower, I have no idea whether Countrywide or any lender can fulfill your loan. That’s why they will send you an application with the info you have provided orally, along with an good faith estimate (if not currently with Countrywide ) . It is at that time that you decide whether to proceed, pay any application and appraisal/credit report fees, and sign/date and return the application and other docs. Then, after your documents and the appraisal is received the loan will be submitted for approval IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CURRENT GUIDELINES, which are changing more restrictive every day. Good Luck.
Mar 4th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Wondering if you may have any clue in regards to how Countrywide handles their payoffs. I recently saw an article regarding CW and how they were “accidentally” listing a prepayment penalty on loan Payoff Demand Statements, that did not actually have one. When they were caught in this, it was of course, “an error” and removed. We also recently came across an article where CW was caught in creating fraudulent documents detailing fees and costs to avoid returning an escrow refund to someone who paid off their account. So… this brings me to my issue. I was selling a home in December 07 and received a Payoff Statement good thru December 10,2007. The wire was sent out from the title company on 12/10/07. We did notice that CW showed and escrow balance due of $2727.72 on our payoff statement, which we knew was incorrect at closing. The closer requested that to avoid a delay in closing, we simply bring this up with CW after the funding. We did just that and were advised by a CW representative on 3 occasions, that the refund would be issued. On 12/31/07 we received a refund that was $1,532.00 short. A CW rep advised me when I called in that it was because on 12/24/07 (14 days after receiving the payoff) there were an additional $1532.00 in fees and costs added to our account. That is CRAZY!! After I tried to get a reasonable explanation from the rep… to the point of complete frustration on both our parts, he transferred me to the payoff department. I spoke with a gal in that dept 1 time a week for the following 6 weeks. She could not explain it herself and could not get the answers after requesting an explanation from another department over and over. Her words were “it seems very strange that the money was there, and poof it was gone”. I am just supposed to accept this? Can they really find a mysterious additional $1532 in fees 2 weeks after receiving our payoff???? I have contacted the dept of finance and can’t even get a straight answer from them, they just say to make my request in writing to CW…I am trying to find out where the law states that they can’t increase my payoff after issuing a payoff demand and receiving their monies. Any ideas???????
May 6th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Payoff demands at Countrywide Home Loans state that there may be fees and costs not stated. It is very strange that funds are “missing”. This is something that requires research. Please fax your concerns to (805)520-5019. We are available to assist you.
Did you have a Lender Placed Policy on your account? Sometimes there are disbursements made for your loan that went out to 1)Taxes 2) Insurance Premiums 3)Lender Placed Insurance Premiums. These disbursements may not have been posted to the loan history. This would then be discovered at payoff. For example, the loan is not closed immediately after receiving payoff. There is a lot of research that is done prior to sending reconveyance to the County Recorder. CHL must review all disbursements made from your account or associated with your loan. It must then confirm that all funds were paid back that are due to the company.
In your message, you state that there was a negative escrow balance. This leads me to assume that there was a shortage created by an escrow disbursement. That narrows it down to the above three types of disbursements.
Did you every throughout the life of the loan receive an LPP notification letter or delinquent tax bill notice? Please check back in your records. Also, request a loan history. As well, have a representative provide you with details of all payments made from your escrow account. Match it up. Or better yet, have the representative do it. We are paid to do it and should do it with pleasure.
In any case, documentation is very thorough. You deserve an answer and we can give it you. Please call us at Customer Service (800)669-6607. Please also do not deter from asking for a Supervisor.
I would suggest that you give another representative a chance to provide you with the answer that you deserve. There are wonderful representatives at Countrywide who are really on top of their game. However; there are also bad representatives. Some are good representatives but not skilled in analytical skills.
I would also like to add that asking you to send your complaint in writing is not a way to brush you off. We have specially trained representatives who specialize is solving these types of issues. The correspondence department is also off of the phones. That means that are 100% dedicated to your resolution. They will contact you and get this addressed.
Please let me know how this goes
May 7th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
hello there everyone !!!
I did work with COUNTRYWIDE and they are not honest.
they personally did my mortgage and i never signed one paper, did not have to provide anything, (F. Romano)i believe she is still a LO with CW. i never rcvd a GFE, TIL etc. she told me she would take care of everything….
I guess she did I received a call 3 weeks later that I was ready to close. but ofcourse at a high rate on the 80/20 because she had to do all the ‘work’. i agreed and signed at closing.
Now i am in a financial situation and she does not want to even help me refi. her excuse was we are in a declining market and I can’t push my appraisers like before.and besides we don’t offer those crazy programs of 80/20 anymore. Good luck and I could not refi nor modify my loan and pre