By Moe Bedard
From Alan a NOW ex-Countrywide employee-
HERE IS THE CHL COMPENSATION THAT WAS JUST PUT IN PLACE EFFECTIVE 12/01/2007
THE MEANS THAT A LOAN ORIGIONATOR COULD GET A HEFTY WAGE INCREASE BY GOING TO WORK AT WALMART. I QUIT THE DAY THIS WAS ANNOUNCED.
Units Funded
Units Payout (Bps) BPS = 12 BPS = .012%
0 – 2 0
3 12
4 14
5 16
6 18
7 20
8 22
9 24
10 27
11 29
≥12 31Lead Type and Product Specific Incentive -
The incentive basis points in the following tables will apply only to funded loans from the specified lead source and/or of the indicated product. These incentives are in addition to any Units Funded and FICO Score incentive for which the loan may be eligible for. For a loan to be considered self sourced it must meet the eligibility criteria indicated in the incentive plan. Also note that the additional lead type payout for Internet Outbound loans will apply only through February of 2008.Lead Type Incentive
Lead Type Payout (Bps)
Self Sourced 15
Internet Outbound * 5
Portfolio Outbound ** 5
* non-port customers only; effective only through Feb. 28, 2008
**applies to NSC Port Dedicated AEs onlyProduct Type Incentive
Product Type Payout (Bps)
A-HELOC 40Units Payout (Bps) BPS = 12 BPS = .012%
Loans BPS Paid $200,000 x .12 bps = $240
0 – 2 0
3 12
4 14
5 16
6 18
7 20
8 22
9 24
10 27
11 29
≥12 31THE TOP PRODUCERS THAT HAVE WORKED AT CHL FOR YEARS DO BETWEEN 6 AND 8 LOANS A MONTH ON A GOOD MONTH, SO THEY JUST TOOK A 75% CUT IN PAY.
NEXT TIME YOU TALK TO A CHL LOAN ORIGIONATOR, GO EASY AS THE ORDER TAKER AT MCDONALDS IS MAKING AS MUCH OR MORE MONEY.
{ 50 comments… read them below or add one }
I’ll have a Loan please with extra sauce, cheese, pickless and a sesame seed bun please! hahaha
Would you like to super size that sir?
Yield Spread Premium and rebate are not the same thing. The Yield spread premium is given to brokers as overage. When you work for a direct lender the term is overage . No one I know originates with underage. We all know Countrywide and their tanned leader are corrupt.
Their Loan officers are the worst paid in the industry but quite willing to put up with the compensation for the name recognition.
In a Street Corner business these people are known as Prostitutes and in the loan business it is a loan ho,you know what I mean.
Good Luck to all the employees that think the ship is not sinking no one can be bailed out forever. The rest of you prepare for the TSUNAMI,The impact will be felt in all the financial markets.
Hey, $2000/month ain’t bad. There aren’t many no-college-degree-required jobs left in this country that pay more than $11/hour.
Hey, with all the layoffs I bet you could get up to $3000/month in no time!
Actually the top producers close slightly more than that and the loan amounts are not $200,000.
If you can’t close more than 3 loans a month then you shouldn’t be there. The payscale reflects that.
Realistically the average LO at CHL is making no less than $2,500 a month. Far from below a burger flipper or greeter at Wal-mart.
The wholesale side of Countrywide has known about loop holes on the Fast and Easy for quite some time. They would tell the brokers leave the time on the job blank when they ran CLOUT. IT would not work, but then Wholesale would tell the broker to submit the file and they would “fix” it. They manipulate the system so that SISA loans could go through with out hardly any time on the job or less than one year self employed.
I do business with Countrwide Correspondent. It is amazing to me that we have been told ….”you can’t count on your CLOUT approval”. They still push buy-backs to the Correspondent lender even with a CLOUT approval. Man they are messed up!!!
Exposing the likes of Mozillo is great. But there are several others that need to to accountable as well. It would be far better if this investigation was being done by a Senator with a brain. Shurmer is an idiot.
If banks and mortgage bankers had to disclose what mortgage brokers do on the HUD, people would be shocked at what is made on their loans, and the stigma of using a mortgage broker to avoid the middle-man would go away.
There are thousands of small independent brokers who run an honest and low cost origination office. Much more efficient that the Countrywides and B of A’s can. I can beat the pants off the B of A conf. rates on any given day and still have no problem disclosing my fees.
We are already so over-regulated, it’s stupid. The loan documents are so thick, nobody bothers to read what they are signing. Why not try streamlining the paperwork so people will read their docs and know what they have signed?
Here’s another pet peeve of mine…When you buy or lease a car… try to get an APR on a lease. When have you EVER had to show income documentation to finance a car? Do the dealerships have to disclose how much money THEY are making on the auto financing? Why not?
Hey, if you went to McDonald’s, at least you can leave the stress at home after flipping burgers! How many McD’s workers actually go home and worry about the burger not being to the customers satisfaction?? Hats off to any LO who actually stays at CHL and puts up with that crap!!!!
I don’t believe that this schedule is for the Retail Channel. It looks more like the comp plan for the Port Retention/Telemarketing hacks. The boys and girls that go out and originate good old fashioned retail business get compensated for their efforts. The Port/Tele folks are nothing more than fast talking churners. In other words, Retail is still on a sliding scale starting around 45 bps and rising to 65-70 bps based on dollar and unit volume.
The Senator is a day late and a dollar short. Where was he years ago in trying to prevent this damage? Sorry, but once again Schumer is just reacting to problems with little foresight to the future… except as it may pertain to his re-election. It’s a popular thing now to beat up on Mr. Pump-’n-Dump Mozilo.
Not sure where you are getting your info, but it has to be wholesale you are talking about.
I can appreciate that everyone thus far is slightly “bitter”. Careers and families have been dishevled for those working in this industry and for those drawn into some of these “Fast and Sleazy” loan programs. The problems and issues just seem to keep surfacing. Corruption, fraud, deceit….hey, wait, are talking about corporate America and politics, or just the mortgage industry? Sometimes it’s hard to tell.
Unfortunately, for those of us who actually still work in the biz and feel compelled to stay in it, the black and blue marks don’t help. Not all lenders and brokers are “bad”. Yes, we do often times make our commission on things like “YSP” and/or “overage”. And the banks with the FDIC seal of approval don’t have to disclose this to the borrower. But we all still compete in an environment of “free will” and capitalism. I wonder if we took an in depth look at, let’s say, the Pharmaceutical Companies with their drug peddling reps with the incentives for the healthcare professionals to use or prescribe their product…trips to locations with warm temperatures and sandy beachs, ect. Or the Health Insurance Industry as related to our Health Care system….what is covered, or maybe not, due to someone’s idea of “medical necessity” or customary and reasonable? I’ll bet we could poke a hot iron in nearly any industry (how about the petroleum industry?) and find more of the same.
It’s not to say that bad things haven’t happened, and it’s finally gotten to the point the government is getting “more” involved……that is almost an oxy moron, isn’t it. We need someone to blame, an escape clause. What is happening to some of the industry is good. Not for the families who weren’t savvy to their loan program features or were hoodwinked during the mortgage process. No way, that is never a good thing. But the “bad” guys, so to speak, are slowly either exiting the business or having to cross back over from the “dark” side. It’s a correction. And it’s time. All the “billions” in write offs….don’t mean much, really. It’s all paper. It’s not real. What happened to our society….years ago, you couldn’t even consider going to a bank to take out a mortgage unless you had 20% of your own money to put into the transaction and still ample money left in your account at the bank. Maybe it’s time we as a society take a little responsibility for our own actions. Marketing, buy now, pay later, “What’s in your Wallet?”….that crap makes me want to vomit. Maybe we’ve overall gone a bit too far with everything. Credit, credit, eat fast food, your kid is unhealthy because we don’t take the time to spend 30 minutes at the dinner table for a meal at home, to discuss the day and commune as a family. Sorry, I’ve rambled on and gone off topic, maybe. This really sucks, albeit, but let’s all buck up and take some of the responsibility, the consumer needs to have some accountability. No one is holding a gun to make you sign the docs. Do the right thing. The question is do we as a society know what the right thing is? It’s happening, not any one person or companies fault. But it will correct, and things will come back. The pain is here. Take your pill, and those who know and believe in the right thing will get it back on track. Industry professionals, politicians, consumers. Let’s work it out together and quit talking about all the bad CEO’s and Loan Officers, companies. Like it or not, we’re all in it together.
this has got to be loan by phone payout in retail, not a typical loan agent position.
GLORY ………..OR GLORIA???
YOU ARE SERIOUSLY CONFUSED YSP /REBATE/ OVERAGE ALL THE SAME !……………DIRECT LENDER HAH!
The fact is the floor rate is the rate that your employer is willing to take in the least for possibly a fee if not at (PAR) meaning no rebate. It is is the determined margin for profit predetermined by the companies CFO or who ever crunches the numbers. All the programs used to qualify and underwrite are and were decent tools yes where influenced by faulty and skewed numbers by Lawyers Title or whatever other name they assumed “All being owned by CW.” The abuse came from those internally and externally who expolited those weaknesses to make a dollar Unfortunately as in Broker world there is and was no accountablity or vested risk by those originating and processing the applications.
I worked for Countrywide Wholesale as an UW until recently. The UWs were told that a CLUES Accept on a Fast & Easy Loan was what you needed to close the deal with the caveat that the UW could indicated that the income indicated for the borrowers on the 1003 was ‘deemed reasonable’. We were then instructed to cite why the income was deemed reasonable BUT WE COULD NOT NOTE WHERE WE FOUND THE SUPPORTING DATA TO DEEM THE INCOME REASONABLE IN THE LOAN FILE. Some UWs were pulling job sites such as Salary.com and putting the documentation in the loan files – we were all told to stop documenting the file. This makes absolutely NO SENSE! We were essentially told to rubber stamp everything and agree that the income made sense when we really had no idea whether it did or not.
Boy, it is nice to hear that other people have noticed the sleazy practices over at Countrywide. When I left them on a good term for a new job offer I had just closed a million…mostly FHA , 2 Fast and Easys . When I got no final paycheck , it took 2 months for someone to let me know that it was because I owed them money. It seems I priced 2 of my loans, fast and easy , with a hit to me of 3 to 4 points. ( Yeah, right) It seems they re-pulled the credit on both , although they were less than a month old and got lucky. Since it was 2 days before close, and the folks had recent inquiries and opened up new credit , the scores were between 3 and 8 points below what was needed for the pricing. So, they put them on a NINA with the same low rate, never called the folks to ask if they had the docs that would be needed for full doc ( the customers did) and closed them charging me. Funny thing is , one closed before I left ( but I had told the processor I was going ) and the other 2 days later. I took them to litigation and they swore they called me on both of them to let me know. And , I guess i am so stupid I would say ” oh yeah, go ahead and charge me for it. Even though they have the docs and truly only wanted a painless quick close.” The regional manager, Regional Vice President , Operations Manager and the branch manager all lied under oath. I won…they paid…but , damn , that was dirty. Nice tactics , huh.
I find it quite amazing that the only “originators” I see on many blog sites are being fed their leads……Is there anybody out there really originating loans….I am a Home Loan Consultant in a Midwest branch and ALL my loans with the exception of a few CW refis are self sourced from realtor and former customer referrals and I make WAY WAY more than that bps schedule you posted…..and no salary either BTW!
Guys, this is the new trend, lower pay packages and see how far you can get away with it. Frankly, production in California is so low that I would be happy if my loan officers were all making at least $2500/m. What they are not telling you is that this is still a purely commissioned based structure, if you don’t produce then you dont get paid. Why not just go into retail and go door to door? You could make more money on one loan closing then 10 with the countrywide model?
Alan a NOW ex-Countrywide employee — he didnt quit — he got laid off thats the reason he hates the compensation plan. The mortgage mess that we are in CW still will pay you 10k every month if you do 10+ with a volume of 2.5 million. Not alot of places still pay you that kind of money and pay you benefits.
You people are idiots. Without YSP, there is no reason for brokers to do loans that are not charged on the front. This will cause higher APR’s and higher lending costs across the board.
Lenders need not show this because they are not guaranteed it unless the loan is bought on the secondary market. So to show a potential compensation when it is not guaranteed recieved would not be true. There are also loans that are sold at scratch and dent for 5-40pt losses. Yes so that means the lender had a $100k loan that they only get paid anywhere from 60-95k for. These are called. Does the borrower care??? Of course not, they are not going to step in w/ the difference. This is capitalism and there is risk and return. You take the risk, you deserve the return. The fact that LO’s and banks and brokers charge fees and points and make rebate is not wrong. Unlike many other professions such as being a lawyer, or doctor , or accountant, or house cleaner, or psychologist, or even working at McDonalds, these clients do not pay yu an hourly fee to work on their loan. In fact they have 3 brokers all spend there time money and energy work on the loan, and go with whom they choose. Seems pretty fair to me, yeah right. So at the end of the day everyone is worng and the system is screwed. Sounds like many other industrys out there, the only difference is that many other industrys didnt give homes to people who didn’t deserve them. As for the CLOUT approval, you should check out CLD Plus instead of Platinum, this puts is all on CW and minimizes the risk of buyback.
You all have not a clue what you are talking about. Sounds like you don’t know how to originate a loan and are blaming CW. Next year when CW is on top once again you will crawl back. Write something factual and positive for a change. Do you know how?
That CW Comp plan is false – like I said before, try saying something positive.
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Listen to all this whining from all these 2 faces @ssclowns, It was ok when you were employed by CW but now WOW, LOOK OUT
As a mortgage broker I assume that Countrywide’s stance is that they can get anyone to work an inbound lead. If you are generating your own leads why don’t you become a LO at a broker shop or mortgage broker instead. A good LO can easily make 2 points (200 basis points) on every transaction.
Come to the midwest and I’ll tell you a sad story about how an American Home Mortgage branch that specialized in fraud ended up renaming itself as a Countrywide retail branch. To add fuel to the fire, the branch managers re-hired disgraced LO’s and processors that they once fired at American Home because of fraudulent activity. Talk about addicted to money!
Get over it. You think they should increase pay after dropping in stock price from $45/share to $8/share? We need this bank to stay afloat, if not then WE are ALL in trouble! Brokers and retail L/O’s. Take the cut in pay and just broker out deals you think can make you more money!!
Think of me though when brokering out.
It’s ran like a sweatshop, what can you expect? They made too much money before if you ask me. I used to work in CMD and those POS lo’s were making lots of cash just answering the phone and taking apps, we the processors did ALLLLLL THE WORK, and got JACK SHIT! The lo’s over there are pretty close the McDonald’s workers in that they just “TAKE THE ORDER”.. oh, and lock the rate, after that, they’re done!! They may hassle the processor from there on out just to check the status, but they are done for the most part so I think the compensation is fair at this point.
If anything, they should give the money the cut to the processors, they’re the reason you even get a paycheck!
Just wondering – is a CHL the outside loan officer sitting in a branch, or is this a telesales position? Can anyone help?
Is this the new comp or is this in addition to their normal comp plan?
Hey everybody. This postion is countrywide full spectrum. This is where tlemarketers call or you get internet leads from CW given to you. Now if you need a job this is still a way to make 5-7k a month consistently with leads given to you. Still not a bad gig.
Folks, I have emails out to CW originators to confirm the comp plan. I use to work for CW retail division over 2 years ago. Trust me, if you get license by your state and become a license loan officer and bring in your own business you would not work for CW retail. You bring in your own business you make the rules or work for a brokerage that rewards you for your hard work. That’s why its called an independent contract when you’re a license loan officer. But I must say, I know several unlicense loan officers at CW finding other jobs to supplement their income right now. Sad…Sad… State of affairs!
Here is the challenge: say something positive about anything………..
Just conirmed this with freinds in one of the last remaining FSL branched in the mid-west
I worked for CHL in 2006 in the Sacramento Area. The comp plan continued changing for the worse while I was there. Luckily I got the opportunity to get my RE license and work on my own. In 2007, I made twice that of ‘06 , even during this adjustment period and I feel much better about what I do. CHL made us charge so many discount points and even then, the top LO’s at our branch only made between 6K and 11K/mo. I make that now and I also get the added benefit of tax write-offs on my expenses.
Some whine with your cheese??? Quit your bitchin and get a job somewhere predatory practices are tolerated.
Have a hearing with U/I in Oregon. Need advise regarding the Fast and Easy Program and how it promoted to business partners on the wholesale side. If you are a loan officer or other interested party how were you addressed when structuring a loan on this product? Please reply.
Kind Regards,
JS
I agree with the Whizkid. I worked for First Horizon Home Loans. There pricing was indicative of price gouging. 100bps in price higher then everybody else in retail. I struggled knowing there was a better deal down the street at a cheaper price all the while knowing I would make the same by giving the better deal. I funded 3-5mill a month. I quit, got my broker’s license, and now work for an independent brokerage. I love it and am rewarded for hard work and do not have to jam people into loans to get to the top tier every month. I also enjoy disclosing everything to every client, even YSP, because we didnt have to at First Horizon. I get business on my own. Never had leads. I pound the pavement and build business relationships to get business. Sounds like the Chop Shops are all but gone, good riddance. Here’s to 2008 being better then 03,04,05,06,07.
Say something nice… okay. They have had some great programs and talk a good talk. The commercials are very good in most cases. But sometimes , as I look through the levels of management and how they are paid, it looks almost like a Ponzi scheme. I know for a fact that our regional management here are ambitious to a fault. But, this can be true with any company. There are some good leaders and some questionable leaders. I remember that at Countrywide , it used to be that we only needed to use 1 credit score. So some of our group would FICA fish. Some managers encouraged it, some turned their backs and others followed company policy of taking only one pull of credit and using what ever you got. We soon learned that in most cases, one particular reporting agency was consistantly higher and did not show many of the collections and student loans. We all know that the local acceptable CRA usually had it all so we avoided it like the plague. Then, we had to use at least 2. Still worked in our favor. Countrywide stood firm on the CR issue and blamed any repercussions on the FICA fishing LC’s. However, an idiot can see that that system would be abused so it is the developer trying to get a greater market share that is the one responsible for any losses or fraud attached to it.
it sounds to me as if you have never been a top producer. this model will make money if foccus more on your origination and less on the basis points
i work for a big name lender with a simular model. it just means you actually have to work for the money you think you deserve. the business is there and if you whip the tears away mabye you can see it
do you really think the service you provide is worth more than that. what do you actually do to justify so much income
i closed 54 million last year in nine month at wamu. check the numbers. with out an assistant. the compensation i recieved is more than suficent
i would never hirer you on my team with that type of negitive attitude. you will never expirence success with an attitude like that
There are good and bad comp plans everywhere. Each person must choose to accept or not the way they are compensated for there work. If there are any loan officers that would like a 60/40 split on conv conf, conv non-conf and brokered loans and a 70/30 split on FHA and VA and full benefits feel free to email me at suzajones@aol.com
I will hire you all to work from home! See my website. Inbound leads to you home….
http://www.amerisave.com/partner/cbarnes
By the way there are two types of LO’s at CW. This comp plan is for the inbound call centers! I did 440 units for almost $50 million in 2006. I made right at 6 figures. Its about $250 per unit. Most of those were HELOCS, very profitable product. Refinancing those kept us alive this year….
I work for cw. I work outbound (call cw borrowers in a call center with a telemarketer sends over warm leads) our pay is as
10 refis or more =35 bps
6-9 refis funded =32 bps
fha pays 5 extra bps
3,000,000 is the mark for 10k a month. it id being done quite a bit here
Jeannie,
What hearing? What the heck is going on? CALL ME.
Lisa
Since B of A purchased CW, the comp plan at B of A is now same as the new CW comp plan. What a Joke!! And they are trying to recruit lic RE agents to wk there..
What is the new B of A pay plan. I am trying to recruit there LO’s.
thanks