by Moe Bedard and Aaron Krowne
Judge Christopher A. Boyko of the Eastern Ohio United States District Court, on October 31, 2007 dismissed 14 Deutsche Bank-filed foreclosures in a ruling based on lack of standing for not owning/holding the mortgage loan at the time the lawsuits were filed.
Judge Boyko issued an order requiring the Plaintiffs in a number of pending foreclosure cases to file a copy of the executed Assignment demonstrating Plaintiff (Deutsche Bank) was the holder and owner of the Note and Mortgage as of the date the Complaint was filed, or the court would enter a dismissal.
The Court’s amended General Order No. 2006-16 requires Plaintiff (Deutsche Bank) to submit an affidavit along with the complaint, which identifies Plaintiff as the original mortgage holder, or as an assignee, trustee or successor-interest.
Apparently Deutsche bank submitted several affidavits that claim that Deutsche was in fact the owner of the mortgage note, but none of these affidavits mention assignment or trust or successor interest.
Thus, the Judge ruled that in every instance, these submissions create a “conflict” and they “do not satisfy” the burden of demonstrating at the time of filing the complaint, that Deutsche Bank was in fact the “legal” note holder.
While the decision is great for homeowners in distress (due to providing a new escape hatch out of foreclosure), it is a big blow to the cause of sorting out the high-finance side of the mortgage mess.
Jacksonville Area Legal Aid Attorney, April Charney, broke this news to us via email and made these comments in regards to the Ohio Federal Court ruling (emphasis ours):
This court order is what I have been saying in my cases. This is rampant fraud on every court in America or nonjudicial foreclosure fraud where the securitized trusts are filing foreclosures when they never own/hold the mortgage loan at the commencement of the foreclosure.
That means that the loans are clearly in default at the time of any eventual transfer of the ownership of the mortgage loans to the trusts. This means that the loans are being held by the originating lenders after the alleged “sale” to the trust despite what it says per the pooling and servicing agreements and despite what the securities laws require.
This also means that many securitized trusts don’t really, legally own these bad loans.
In my cases, many of the trusts try to argue equitable assignment that predates the filing of the foreclosure, but a securitized trust cannot take an equitable assignment of a mortgage loan. It also means that the securitized trusts own nothing.
So with this decision, it appears confirmed that investors in the mortgage debacle may in fact own nothing—not even the bad loans they funded! It seems their right to the cash flow from the underlying properties does not extend to ownership of the properties themselves; thus clouding the recovery picture considerably.
Charney further remarked to us:
This opinion, once circulated and adopted by state and Federal courts across the country, will stop the progress of foreclosures, at first in judicial foreclosure states, across America, dead in their tracks.
We agree with additional remarks Charney made pointing out that this decision has major adverse implications for the prospects of an amicable financial workout for the various investor contingents in mortgage-backed securities (MBSes). Doubt is cast on where the full write-downs will eventually land, and this uncertainty can only be expected to further harm the market value of MBS and MBS-based synthetic securities, already in shambles purely due to rising underlying delinquencies. Investors in these securities might have assumed—wrongly, it turns out—that they actually owned some “real estate” in these deals.
To paraphrase Jim Cramer, “They own nothing!”
Original Story from IamFacingForeclosure.com. http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/article/20071113_Boyko/01.html
185 Responses
I can confirm the policy CW has about not paying bonus commissions after termination. It happened to a friend of mine. He had worked hard for three months to get his pipeline going, then CW fired him and the rest of his office, just two days before commissions were due. They told him that he could not collect his commissions because he was no longer an employee. What a bunch of crock. Visit me on http://www.thethinkplant.com and pop bubblewrap-it relieves tension!
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
This is just a little tid bit of what went on behind the doors in the CW kitchen. I am also an ex-CW manager and I can tell you many, many stories about how we were pressured into selling Option ARM’s to as many borrowers as we could and with 3 year pre pays. Of course we sold these primarily in California where we made the most fees.
It didn’t matter if you were retired on a fixed income or a single mother with 10 kids. By the time our call center was done with you, you were in an Option ARM w/2 yr pp at 4 points.
Oh, then we called you in 6 months to do it all over again.
I am trying to cleanse myself of these sins Moe and I will come to Moe’s confession comment area as much as I can.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
The Nazis were only following orders, too.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
I have already swallowed the cyanide capsule and death will soon follow. I don’t think God can save us now.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
I was with CW for 4 years and vowed to never sell an option arm! Period! Never did. Why? Because it wasn’t a fair deal for my borrower. Anyone who has the brain power to be a manager could figure that out, unless the focus was only on how much money you can earn off a loan and a trusting client. Shame on all of you.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Hi. From a homeowner’s aspect someone should know that in 2004 I had two mortgages with CW that supposedly did not have a prepay. But what you are saying explains how they treated me. I received no less that 2 to 3 phone calls each week on EACH LOAN from CW wanting to know if I WAS GOING TO MAKE MY PAYMENT ON TIME. Now I know they were harassing me so I would refinance early and have to make the prepay.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Purge yourself people. Call your state attorney general, Mr. Cuomo, your congressperson, someone and come clean. Provide this ammunition to someone who will do something about it. You “enable” CW and other dirtbags to continue their deception, lies, theivery by remaining silent on this issue.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
“CW also has a policy on their employees bonus. “Bonus for this month will not be paid until the last business day of the following month, but you must be employed with CW in order to receive it.” So, if they term you on 28th and payroll is on the 29th you do not get your bonus for work you did the month before. When they let me go they owed me over $35,000 in earned bonus.”
My suggestion is to contact an employment/compensation attorney. This is ILLEGAL; they cannot deny you commissions based on performance because they terminate you before the end of the month. Also, since it appears that your bonus is derived from past performance, they also cannot deny you the bonus. Get a good attorney who specializes in this area and will do it on future winnings, get a couple of ex-employees or managers, and file a class action lawsuit. Not only will it get more attention, but it will cause more CW ex-employees who have been screwed over by CW to join your lawsuit or file their own. Ultimately, they will settle because of the incredible bad publicity it will generate. They’ll bluster at first (it’s Mozillo’s style), but they’ll settle.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Here’s the deal ex-Countrywide employees. The best thing you can all do (for your own protection) is to come forward to your local District Attorney and come clean with all that you know in regards to possible criminal and unlawful acts for whatever lender or broker you had or currently work for.
I am telling you right now, that many DA’s are going to go after these white collar criminals HARD and there is a lot of pressure on us to bring indictments against mortgage professionals. A LOT!
Either you work with us or against us.
One decision will most likely clear your name and the other will land you in the Federal Penitentiary. The choice is your and the clock is ticking.
Protect yourself and work with us or you will most likely see yourself as a defendant in your favorite local court house. Facing serious time for serious crimes.
Moe, good job on your blog and exposing the truth. I am sure there are many law enforcement professionals that learn a lot from this blog. I have been reading it for quite some time and have not felt compelled to comment until now.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Boy, and I thought it was only the brokers I had to deal with…
Now I know why I was so pressured from the top for all these stupid loans.
I never worked for Countrywide, but I have worked for other hard hitting lenders. I have done my “exposure”, twice.. losing my jobs in the process. Once because a sales manager threatened my job if I didn’t underwrite to his specifications, (I got a SMALL settlement for that.this was a big bank too. not worth the time, but worth saving my underwriting dignity) and I reported my boss at a small mortgage bank violating section 8 of Respa. I have since reported him to HUD and the FBI.
It is obvious there has to be more news coverage that the middle people, are not the perpetrators of this massive scheme.
If future employers just understood how harassed we were, they would welcome us with open arms for our tenacity.
Yes, people need to come forward, it is our obligation, so they can’t do this to us again..
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
The payoff department usually says there is then requires the borrower to prove that they do not. Very common, this is why there are diligent brokers that make sure that their clients interests are represented. Often the client says they do not have a prepayment penalty and then I request the signed document from the lender which they gladly provide to show the borrower and myself that it is so. It can go either way.
Listen to the Daily Mortgage Report at
wow.ContactHerrick.com
Roger Herrick
California Mortgage Broker
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
My third grader is more articulate than you. How is burger King working out for you?
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
I was laid off from a CA Mortgage Co found within MI, (Co#1-28) and did not receive an earned bonus that I earned when they laid me off. I referred my case to the Orange County Court system and the State Of CA was my representation via mediator. The company brought 2-3 HR representatives who stated the month I last worked was a month I would have been paid bonus but since it was employment at will on both sides, they didn’t need to pay me.
The ruling was I had earned the bonus, I was entitled to it since I intended to stay with the company at the time it was paid which was after I was let go, ( I was let go on the 22nd but would have been paid on the 30th if they didn’t let me go). If I left on my own, (on the 22nd) then in the courts eyes, they could keep it & I would have no case, but in this case I was entitled to it.
If they hold out your bonus and other incomes upon termination, in some cases you can get paid to the minute, even if you were let go up to 4 months ago. You would have to go to a jury trial etc and you could lose but these days a jury of your peers would probably side with you if you have a good case. I chose just the bonus and all my sick time and vacation time and won. They had 10 days to pay me or there would be more fines on their side & I was paid by the 4th day. (Good Luck!)
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
Excellent advice J. Jeffries!
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Awesome story and way to fight back!
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
There was a lot of pressure from the higher ups to make these loans happen. It is unfortunate that some of the good loan officers and brokers will suffer for the acts of the many, many reckless ones. It is just the way our society is and the easiest way to deal with a massive problem is to just throw everyone under the bus, as opposed to a one by one approach.
Thus, that black cloud will be very hard to shake for quite some time and I only suspect for it to continue as we see much more negative media attention in the months to come.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
I have worked in the mortgage industry since 1969 in just about every desk possible and in sales the longest. Every bank I have ever worked for has something in their contract that is in their favor, it is your job to find it before you sign it. I’m more interested how the “chiefs” can sell off their stock in the tune of over $3mil+ every month since December 2006 and no SEC investigation? am I the only one who finds this off, he got hundreds of millions of dollars. Also, who is going to say it? Who out there knows who benefited from the PP Penalties on the “option” programs, get the borrower to sign on for a 3 year the broker got 3.25% rebate….do the math people, every single broker benefited, every AE benefited, every CW manager benefited, the only ones who didn’t are the borrowers who signed the documents, were lied to by the broker and escrow officer that the POC fee to the broker in the $10K range “does not affect their loan”. Come on people do you really think this is just the LENDER at fault? Grow up, if you sold the loan to the borrower and you did not let them know the loan will NEVER go the whole 3 years before they will not be able to afford their payment caused by payment increases and recasting of their loan caused by the increased negative of over the 15% magic number then you are at fault. AE’s who looked the other way on stated income files, when they saw documentation that proved the repayment was not possible with the “actual” income are at fault, escrow officers who went along with the broker and withheld actual information regarding the “rebate” not affecting the loan….you are at fault, no one is safe from prosecution if you were employed by a broker, lender, bank, escrow or title company, we all had something we knew and choose not to say anything because our bills were getting paid….what’s to say if we told the truth, we’d have been looking for a job sooner than we did. For you CW managers, it is unbelievable to me you have not gotten together yet and filed a class action suit. If someone took $35,000.00 from me I’d be calling as many people as I could to get something going, in a case like this there are many Attorneys who will take this on contingency….it’s your money, I’d be going after it with vengeance!!!!! We all knew something we should have done something about, we used excuses not to do anything about it, the best is “who do I tell CW is doing things that are illegal” but we all know we can always start with the DA in our areas and then start where we are told to start. We did nothing. Bottom line, we are all to be held responsible for any person loosing their homes, all it took from us, a broker, a Loan Officer, an Account Executive is to be honest. Now the attornys will be happy to know the dishonest jokes will transfer to us now. Stop making lame excuses, if you knew and continued to work for the “bad” boys you are just as bad as they are. So am I.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
I’ve been in mortgage industry for over 10 years. The lenders try to sneak in pre-pays alot of the times hoping the client dosen’t realize. But when you originate the loan and know for a fact that the loan was originated without pre-pay. Than it can be challenged and corrected. The mess in the industry was created by the lenders with the power and money.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
I was recently laid off/forced to leave countrywide. I had over 6 loans in my pipeline, and when asked if I would be paid my bonus they told me that it will be sent to me in a check with-in the next two weeks. I waited, and received a check two weeks later. I open it to find that they didn’t pay my bonus, but only paid me for my vacation time! When I called a friend who was still with the company he explained that the managers went into the system and gave other AE’s my loans. So I didn’t and wouldn’t get paid.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
I worked for Countrywide for over 2 years. On alomst every loan we were forced to add a pre-pay. My manager also would try to find ways for us to take a Prime loan down to a Sub Prime so we would get paid more.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
Interesting Comments, I like the fact that 6 MONTHS ago all of us where enjoying our Pay Checks and closing all of these Terrible loans and getting paid $$$$. Now we are Crying Wolfe…. Must be slow out there!!! Lets continue the Blame Game. TAG your next MOE!!
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
My borrower’s has prepayment penalty on his existing loan with Countrywide, which I refinanced through their Full Spectrum Division. My managers pushed me to get my borrower to sign his loan docs so we can fund the loan and charge him prepayment penalty, while aware of the fact that the prepay is falling off in a few days.
I reported the incident to CW’s HR and Ethics Hotline. This incident cost me my job.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
I hear you. And it was no mistake that Countrywides Eric DeClerque was in charge of pushing these pay option arms. CW rewarded him with another cushy job on the west coast where he now oversees reverse mortgages. Now he’s going after seniors. He always said to us that his first responsibility was to the shareholders. I wonder what the shareholders think now!
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
I am thoroughly disgusted with this industry. I haven’t done an adjustable in 5 years because it’s not fair to the customer. I’d say that the industry is getting everything it deserves but the horrific consequences to the average homeowner is just a tragedy. The lending credit in this country is just nothing more of greed and predatory. SAD…
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
Sandy,
I agree with you on this but you must also consider that what’s going on is more ethically wrong doing as oppose to legally wrong doing. I have been in this industry for a long time as well and there are still honest originators out there that will and are informing the clients as to how their loan works from beginning to end. In the end no one wants to blame the obvious offender; the borrower. The products that are being offered, i.e. the options arms aren’t illegal. They are crazy as hell but still not illegal. Ethically, if an originator is not explaining to their client the monumental problems they will face if they don’t address this highly vilotile product the right way, then that is wrong. However, not wrong enough to go to jail because the client(most of them) are not looking down the road. And clients, regardless of what the originator tells them, should do their own research. Most clients don’t want to hear the real about the loan and just as terrible, most originators don’t know how to explain some of these products. Shame on them and shame on their brokers and then shame on the lender that made this product available without proper training. Eliminating rebates and stopping originators from making money is not the issue. Taking away a ysp will not fix the problem of knowing a product and informing the client accordingly. It might make it worse. There needs to be a general rule and punishment across state lines but that’s going to be impossible because every state is governed by laws that only pertain to its own state. Some of the blame needs to fall on the consumer. I have heard it with my own ears where borrowers hear the truth and convince themselves they can afford a note they shouldn’t have in the first place. If the truth about the loan is explained and the client continues with the loan then the client should be equally responsible. That’s where the real problems begins. The borrower. Most of the time they are not listening to the truth and if you tell them otherwise and they can’t get that house, they will find someone who won’t tell the truth and get that house. In terms of the bonus rip off. I worked at Aegis Lending and they did the same thing as CW. If you quit or get fired before you actually get your bonus then you are a**ed out. I knew that going in, so when I quit, I had no bonuses to collect, just my check. However, I knew this from the beginning. I also signed documents attesting to that as well, that’s why you don’t see anyone suing and you won’t. Again, ethically, its wrong as a football bat, but not illegal, otherwise a bunch of people would be in jail or sued. But you are right Sandy, we are all wrong including the borrower.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
I find it ironic that implode-o-meter has Subprime mortgage companies and Short Sale advertising. A while back I saw one ad and it was COUNTRYWIDE.
lololol
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
My question to you Robert is “How did you go so long and not get fired for not producing the biggest fees and the most loans for Countrywide?”
The same story I keep hearing is that these loans had to come in or you were shown the door.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
greed,greed and greed thats what countrywide is,they soon will go under
thats for sure
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
This statement is to confirm that Countrywide/shameful mortgage was in business to push as many option arms as possible even if the program was sold thru a broker. I am employed with a true mortgage banking firm owned by a national bank. I have been with this company for the past seven years and have worked a total of 22 years in the industry. I always knew that C/W was slight of hand. I have just refinanced a borrower out from under the uption arm program. Here are the specifics as to what C/W does to people:
I financed three homes for this particular borrower over the last 9 years. the last mortgage was a first and second. Agency paper. 13 months ago they received solicitation from a broker pushing the option arm. They were never informed about neg am or a three year prepay. (Let the buyerr beware). anyway they called me in desperation needing to exit this loan. TO make a long story short I reviewed the HUD 1 Settlement statement from the brokered closing 13 months ago and found that the broker upcharged the base interest rate to 3.5%. The actual rate was 9.5% Figure that neg am for yourself. The YSP on a loan amount of $202,500 was $6,075.00 Plus they charged the following fees: Originatin $1,272.00, $550.00 commitment fee, $310.00 appllication fee,$310.00 appraisal fee. Negative amortization on this loan for 12 months was $8,821.00 and the 3 year prepay was $7,702.00 Who does Mozillo (Tan man) think he is kidding when he says that he did not push the option arms and pay extra - brokers included. Where is the FBI in all of this mess? Why arn’t they doing a complete investigation of C?W and Mozilli? He should be found guilty and put behind bars for what he has done. We already know what he will look like in a stripped suit. Country wide is one of the worst offenders and they need to be put out of business. FANNIE/Freddie should cut them off at the knees. Why would anyone want to purchase loans from a company that has commited fraud on such a large scale. BRING IN THE FBI!
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
Lets see if this is correct. A company offers products to its Brokers, out of 100 or so the Broker picks the one He/She can make the most Money and thats CW Fault??(removed) Please!!!
HATERAID FOR SALE..
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Robert,
The only people who should even look at these type of loans are investers that are going in the near future flip that property. Period. Its not meant to keep, so that rules out elderly couples, first time home-buyers and people who don’t understand the loan in general. I had to take several classes to fully understand the inner workings of this product. The end result was, only finance savvy individuals need apply. Forget about the ysp and low rate. To even have this loan at 0% is dangerous. The ysp payment is how the loan is set up. It comes with the laon. The astonishing part is the number of originators who did not understand how this worked and then went out and sold the client on a lesser rate. Ridiculous
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
For the CW employees….shame on all of you for not standing up for your borrowers! The people in the RE industry that didn’t protect their borrowers deserve no sympathy. You ignored what you knew was right….that was greed! You thought only of yourself and your precious job/paycheck.
Posted on November 12th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
For the record lets set a couple things straight.
There was and is no incentive for CW to push negative arm loans. It is a product offered just like any other option. Most borrowers are provided with the terms of the loan, but fail to think long term. Borrowers and LO’s alike always assume that the products will be around forever. This usually burns both parties.
I think Chedder hit it on the head. LO’s are put into very powerful positions. They will in fact determine on the broker side who the loan will close with. Normally this is going to be the company that provides the most financial benefit to the LO. For those of you that claim you have a squeaky clean image, I beg to differ. If you are providing an FHA loan with 3 pts, I believe your screwing your client. If you do a HELOC second, I believe you are screwing your customer. And if you thin for a second that doing 3 loans in 9 years for one client is the right thing to do, your screwing your client.
Both borrowers and lender/LO’s are to blame for this debacle. Also, throw in your occasional title company, appraiser, and you have a “WTF” Gumbo.
What people are failing to understand is that terms are disclosed, but maybe the client whines about the interest rate. So the lo has an option to provide a lower rate, the first place to turn to is a prepayment penalty. The second place to turn to is possible a more creative payment option. The last place to look is your YSP. For the record. CHL doesn’t allow it’s AE a YSP option. The comp plan is based off of loan volume, and the loans closed per month. THE COMP PLAN IS MORE FRUITFUL FOR SOMEONE TO CLOSE MORE LOANS PER MONTH. With that being said, the borrower’s must be satisfied. There are survey’s that are conducted, and could hurt your chances for employment. Not to mention that there are internal audits completed all the time.
No one is perfect. I would also like to challenge the fact that MOE is a home loan advocate.
http://www.fransenandmolinaro.com/default.html
It appears to me that MOE practices mortgage law and medical malpractice. If anyone knows this about Class Actions, is that there isn’t squat left to the client. Most of the $$$ goes to legal counsel.
So keep diggin MOE, and keep providing in accurate, one sided comments about “ficticious” scenarios. And I guess maybe you’ll get a couple clients.
Moe also, think of the client next time. Maybe represent a client for pennies on the dollar, because you are the “mortgage mother Theresa”??
Oh and I wonder if you ever had a client that told you one thing. After, you accept the case, they start singing a different toon?
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 12:30 am
First of all The broker that was helping the customer was charging 5 pt and was not looking out for the borrower with the fees that he was charing. Soon all these lender will exit the wholesale business and the broker will have no more business.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 12:34 am
I agree these broker are also at fault in the housing meltdown.All these want is ysp,which hopefully will be discontinue by state law. Let see them work for 2 pts.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 12:38 am
These comments about the Lo pushing the neg arm is incorrect as an LO when i visit the brokers they are the one who are steering the borrower in that direction because they offer a lower rate and they charge more money. Maybe if we eliminate the third party originator (BROKER) the borrower will have some equity left.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 12:43 am
I am with the district attorney. If you know anything come forward now!! I have been in the business for 20 years. Two years I spent with a big lender in the State of Michigan. I was a government underwriter. I got burned not the lender for not coming forward with what I knew was happening 2 years after I left. Even though the head honchos were doing the dirty work. They are still living in there big expensive homes living the high life while I am a single mother just trying to raise a family. COME FORWARD ASAP
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 12:49 am
Been in the biz for 15 years and did one and only one CW loan. Learned from that one CW was a bad deal for my prime & subprime clients!
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 12:51 am
Thta’s right let’s blame CW, when the hold industry is melting down. CW did not increased home values,nor told borrower to purchase two to three property that they couldn’t afford,or broker to send stated income knowing that the borrower couldn’t pay. So we are all going to pay for the greed that was commited by all in the industry. Yes, CW may go under but so will the rest, because everyone is involved. I hope you saved money $$$$$.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 12:52 am
I’m a former Mgr at CW’s Full Spectrum. In 2006 we were given 1 1/2 points towards our sales contest in vegas for a SUBPRIME OPTION ARM vs 1 point for all other loans. In the final months of the year they revised the plan to give same points for all loans, obviously legal realized the error of their ways. My office never wrote 1 option-arm, I think in most cases the prime option-arms are criminal, I can’t even imagine the terms on the subprime option arms out there. However, I left CW to go to a larger broker, only to find out it was just as rampant in the broker community.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 12:56 am
did you go to the Vegas trip for sales summit?
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Yes, stayed at the Wynn Hotel, everything on Mozilo.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 1:20 am
There is nothing wrong with making money. The problem is L.O.’s not informing their clients on the better deals, if the deals are available. Clients can still and should shop for competing products. You will still have the same problem if you limit them to 2pts. Then what? Will the meltdown clear up? If the product doesn’t change, you have done nothing.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 1:21 am
Thank you. Someone with some sense about this thing.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 1:29 am
Moe is not an attorney. Moe does not practice “Mortgage Law” nor does he practice “Medical Malpractice,” but I do.
Moe works with my law firm and has been instrumental in getting the word out that there is help for victims of predatory lending. The law firm is a for profit venture. It is what I do for a living. It’s how I pay my mortgage. Everyone who works for the firm does so to make a living as well. I don’t understand how that applies to whether what we do is helpful, necessary, and good for the public.
I also practice medicine for a living, and while I make a profit doing so, I know I am providing something very positive to my fellow human beings when I practice.
On a related note, I and my law partner Nathan Fransen and Moe have co-founded the non-profit corporation Homeowners Defense Advocates (the 501(c) status is pending) which will focus on providing relief to troubled borrowers and education to both consumers and to the mortgage industry.
- Paul J. Molinaro
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 1:37 am
And then the borrower will go to the bank, if they qualify and get an even worse deal than before. Except this time, you don’t have the privilege of seeing what they make on the back end. So instead of getting a lower rate and pay a little more, you suggest a higher rate and save a little only to lose the house because they can’t handle the high note which is affected by the higher rate. Your comment makes no sense
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 1:39 am
Greedy borrowers bought too much house with the expectation, among others, of flipping in a few years. Yet they failed to consider the potential effects of rate resets, namely payment shock. Not everyone deserves homeownership. That popular notion should be dismissed. Regulation is not the answer. Product and secondary market innovations have made homeownership available to a broader audience (~60% in early 90s to ~70% now). While I don’t endorse homeownership for all, this demonstrates the positive contributions of recent innovations. More disclosure is not the answer. It’s incumbent upon borrowers to understand the terms of the loan and risks they are assuming. It’s absurd for an ARM borrower to say they didn’t understand that rate resets on ARM loans have the potential to cause payment shock. Flood the basement and send the keys to the bank. Maybe you’ll get lucky through further bailout efforts. Ultimately taxpayers will fund the bailout and your imprudent decisions.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 1:43 am
Chedder,
Some people get it sooner than others - how long will it take you? Maybe all these people “Crying Wolfe” have a conscience. Why is that naysayers generally don’t like to hear the truth?
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 2:01 am
Just to clarify a couple things -
I am not an attorney. I am a homeowner advocate. My day job is at a law firm that specializes in predatory lending and mortgage law. I am also a loss mitigation analyst and loan scene investigator.
You say - “There was and is no incentive for CW to push negative arm loans. It is a product offered just like any other option.”
What, you don’t think 3 plus percentage points on the back of these loans if you pushed a 3 year pre pay on your unsuspecting borrower does not qualify as an “incentive”????? Excuse me, but that is called “financial incentive” and it was a big incentive at that.
Then you say - ” For the record. CHL doesn’t allow it’s AE a YSP option. The comp plan is based off of loan volume, and the loans closed per month. THE COMP PLAN IS MORE FRUITFUL FOR SOMEONE TO CLOSE MORE LOANS PER MONTH.”
Incentivised on volume eh? The borrower must be satisfied.
Well, news alert! 99x’s out of 100 the borrower doesn’t realize they were screwed until time goes by and the true monster loan starts to rear its ugly head. So Countrywide’s cute little surveys do not impress me one bit.
Sometimes it takes time for a borrower to realize that they have a 3 year prepay or they could have got a much lower rate.
I am here to report the facts on what really happened and what really is going on out there and it appears that you still are in denial.
I am a homeowner advocate not a loan advocate Boo Who.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 2:03 am
Did anyone catch the racist with a nickname of Chedder? Read his last signout and give him more air time. Ignorance……..
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 2:04 am
Thanks for pointing that out and I will delete it right now.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 2:16 am
soccerdad i did see that last line. Moe is truly helping people fight the fight
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 2:28 am
Top Producer,
You should change your handle to “Poor Speller” - it wouldn’t be so hard for the rest of us to read your rants.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 2:38 am
Anybody that has been in the mortgage business for more than 1 week, knows that CW is the employer of last resort. I have never and will never work for them. CW is a company that is run by ruthless thieves. I feel bad for some the Borrowers. I wonder if Mozillo and his band of thieves will be able to have tanning beds in their jail cells at Club Fed…
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 2:41 am
This is for the DA. I have a good one for you. Had a customer come and see us to help him out of a huge problem. Turns out a rep. from Countrywide had him refinance his house that he had for 20 years with lots of equity. Pulled all his money out of it and purchased three more houses with it. Countrywide funded all four loans as ower occupied. This is your case to bring Countrywide down. How is it possible that the same lender can fund four different properties for the same owner around the same time. Customer is now in jeopardy of loosing all the houses. Has defaulted on three and ready to default on his main house. All his savings gone. Problem is this poor guy cannot read a word of English and had no clue what he was signing. The loan officer will not return his call. I called Countrywide fraud department and they blew me off. Basically told me that the customer should have known better. WHAT ?????? This is by far the worst case I have ever heard of. I can understand if the customer purchased the homes from three different brokers and then the loans were sold to Countrywide. They could then make the case that they only purchased the loan after the fact. This is not the case. They originated, processed were completely aware and funded the loan. Again. WOW!! Let me know if you want the info.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 2:58 am
This is for the DA. I have a good one for you. Had a customer come and see us to help him out of a huge problem. Turns out a rep. from Countrywide had him refinance his house that he had for 20 years with lots of equity. Pulled all his money out of it and purchased three more houses with it. Countrywide funded all four loans as ower occupied. This is your case to bring Countrywide down. How is it possible that the same lender can fund four different properties for the same owner around the same time. Customer is now in jeopardy of loosing all the houses. Has defaulted on three and ready to default on his main house. All his savings gone. Problem is this poor guy cannot read a word of English and had no clue what he was signing. The loan officer will not return his call. I called Countrywide fraud department and they blew me off. Basically told me that the customer should have known better. WHAT ?????? This is by far the worst case I have ever heard of. I can understand if the customer purchased the homes from three different brokers and then the loans were sold to Countrywide. They could then make the case that they only purchased the loan after the fact. This is not the case. They originated, processed were completely aware and funded the loan. Again. WOW!! Let me know if you want the info.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 2:58 am
20 plus years in this industry and I can tell you straight up, any shop, any company, you produce or go. If you were not agressive, you were history. If you picked a program that was tougher, the manager or owner would give you the, “sell yourself,” speal. The mortgage industry is sales, and if you aren’t selling, you’re gone. The whole industry is trying to say,”who me”, and they know exactly what they did. GREED cometh before the fall! I am curious to see how all those big wigs from places like CW who made upwards of 400K each with their expense accounts and lavish lifestyles will handle life without mortgages. They will be the neuvo riche in some other field.., I hear the travel industry is a popular segway. Ever notice how many new agents there are? The culprits have jumped ship and are not feeling any pain at all. Mozillo will probably write books and do the lecture circuit at 200K a pop! He should be in jail with the rest of the thieving jerks who pushed for every slimey penny.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 3:23 am
Jose, take em all down…find out if it was also the same real estate agent on all of the purchases…perfect fraud circle! You will probably find the broker was also the real estate agent.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 3:32 am
Hey,
I hate to break it to you, but a friend who ia WY up in the food chain and seeking employment told me recently that an internal audit revealed that the AVM on the Fast and Easy programs had been found to be manipulated. They found out, and of course fired the manager. The funny thing is, how did they show appreciation when no one else was? Don’t tell me they didn’t know the AVM’s were dirty. The food chain knew, they are just doing a massive CYA to avoid the SEC.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 3:36 am
Keep pointing that “short-sighted” finger…
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 3:40 am
Jose,
If this really happened then its not only the CW but the title company, the appraiser, the insurance agent, everyone involved. Do you realize what you are implying? Its bigger than just CW. But if the borrower has bought a house before, then you can’t honestly use the “he doesn’t understand English” excuse. Someone is speaking English or translating. He bought a house before all of this. Is his original house in foreclosure? Sounds like his tenants didn’t pay the rent and he could cover the mortgage when that happened. He knew what he was getting into. There are two many variables involved here for him not to understand. Miss everyone with that one. Please. Fraud is fraud in any language. He benefited by not putting any money down and got a better rate as opposed to putting 10% to 15% down and a crappy rate. He is just as wrong as his real estate crew. They all need to go to jail, including the borrower.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 3:55 am
So, all the crying and point of fingers goes to people that provide loans. Don’t get me wrong, I can’t stand CW. All of you that are complaining and seem to have inside info are just pissed that you have to go back to your house cleaning job or bar tending that you were doing before you found easy money. As for you DA, you are a piece of work. We all know what you are “ambulance chasing lawyer” and you people are definately the ones that will take advantage of all this mess. Who do you think you’re kidding cause I’m sure if you are a true DA, you still have a practice and stear cases to your partners. I’ve already seen the adds you piece of crap. We know what you’re pushing for. Your kind is the most dispicable proffession out there. Keep throwing stones.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 3:57 am
Ex-Mortgage Industry worker reveals MO; With comments ..
I could tell you quite a bit about when I worked there. I can also tell you about some more recent events.
I originated a loan for a borrower who did an equity buy out one year ago with her ex-spouse to be. She wanted to do an interest only loan for one year so she could adjust to the payment on her own. I ran her a sep. amort. schedule for if and when she wanted to pay principal payments also.
This loan DID NOT have a prepay penalty on it.
The loan was sold a few times and it ended up in CW hands She came back to me and decided to go ahead and convert over to a regular fixed rate. We were ready to close we obtained the payoff. My processor came up to me with huge eyes because there was this huge prepayment penalty added to the payoff.
He said, did you do this loan with a prepay? I said, no way, we don’t do prepays here!
He hands me the payoff. I immediately get on the phone with customer service and they pull the note up on their imaging screen and say, you are right this says there is NO Prepay. Please hold while I get the payoff dept on the line.
Oh then here comes the fun.
The payoff dept says they do not have the loan information and will have to order it from records management. I said wait a minute. The customer service rep I just spoke to just read me the ote word for word, don’t tell me you do not have this information. We were suddenly disconnected.
These events went on for days.
One Customer service reps said to me, “Even if the borrower didn’t know they had a prepayment penalty, it could have been added later without them knowing it.” OMG I completely lost my cool. I demanded a supervisor
who tried to pull the same thing on me and then claimed they didn’t have the loan info. I said, “Wait, I am a former Branch Manager for CW and I know there is an imaging system right there on your software. She says, hold on just a minute. Gets back on the phone whispering to me that she will have me a corrected pay off within 24 hrs. I asked her why we were whispering and she said it was because there were other people by her.
Well, the payoff did not come. We had to threaten repeatedly to call the media and involve an attorney before the payoff finally came. This took a week and half to resolve.
My question is, how many people didn’t have someone like me in their corner and have paid these not knowing any better?
CW has two different origination systems. It would probably easier if we spoke on the phone so I can describe to you what they do to get around disclosing within the required time frame.
I questioned it back then and never felt comfortable with it. CW also has a policy on their employees bonus. “Bonus for this month will not be paid until the last business day of the following month, but you must be employed with CW in order to receive it.” So, if they term you on 28th and payroll is on the 29th you do not get your bonus for work you did the month before. When they let me go they owed me over $35,000 in earned bonus. They did this to all of the managers in my region.
Pretty slick, huh?
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:11 am
Jose,
Send your info to Fannie. She probably bought the bogus loans. The fraud probably doesn’t end with “Owner Occupied” or “Investor” check boxes on an app. White out, copy, paste, add a couple of zero’s now sign this Mr. Duped.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:17 am
Here is my honest OPINION and don’t get bent out of shape for reading what I am about to say:
1st, the DA posting does not sound like a DA; nice try. You need to talk just a little bit more professional and more educated.
Second, the Poor Underwriter probably underwrites 4 -5 loans per day falls below industry average between 7 - 10 per day; got sour so decided to report anything to get back at your ex-employer to FBI or RASPA/HUD. GOT FIRED! I wished you would publish your name for the rest of the lending world so we all know that we would never hire you. I bet you are one of those who threatens your employer or manager constantly with “Compliance or Violation” in order to get respect or your way? Don’t bother to explain I met people like you. Not Flattering! LOOSER!
Third, those AEs; it’s funny that you cry about selling “Option Arm” and being forced. Guess what, you are in a free country. At that time, you have plenty options to choose and no one was holding gun to your head or holding your family hostage. You had OPTIONS. But, you are bitter because of “MONEY” and twisting everything around in your favor. Shame on you. Let’s talk about moral. If you knew that was poison, why would you sell it? Would you feed it to your dog, cat or your kid? BLAME BLAME BLAME. That is very easy to do isn’t it.
Let me break it down for those of you who wants to know the truth. Blame on Hedge Fund and Manging Firms on Wallstreet; Blame on Congress who didn’t regulate; Blame on SEC not control the flow of foreign investment capital; BILLIONS from foreign firms in controlling US Mortgage Backend securities.
How come I am not hearing any of the above here? Countrywide had to do what they do the best in the mortgage lending and servicing. Don’t blame the distributors. Blame the Cocain Manufacture on WallStreet and Cocain Investors. Maybe this is too deep for most of you?
About the pre-pay; maybe the allegation is true maybe not. Why talk talk talk. Have the fact and take it to state auditors or state commissioner who will examine it. If there is an inch of truth to the merit of your claim. Your commissioner will issue their best judgement to DA.
The food chain from top gets more nasty. Unless you are in upper management who deals with secondary trading & investment. Most of you will never understand the complexity. It gets more ugly. Every company officers and managers should look out the “best interest” of the company or the “firm”.
At the end of the day, countrywide is not a bad company after all. It’s OFTEN those individual; “Nasty” ex-employee who creates a false representation, mis-leading impression and hateful remarks are the one who should be examined closely. Put them all on survival island. That would be a great reality show to see.
This industry has too many “NASTY” and “UGLY” low educated people. Never graduated from high school or college. Those CEO, COO and senior managers, Raise Your EXPECTATION o
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:21 am
Dearest J (Prepay Penalty Story)… I am currently employed at Countrywide’s FSL in Los Angeles. We have access to not only AS400 (CWs CRM system), but also imaging. Because CW buys and sells hundreds of thousands of loans per year, it might make a little sense that a prepayment penalty gets added inadvertently (or intentionally - but who cares which?!?). Bottom line - pull original note from imaging, match it to account info, and get it corrected. I did this a month ago for a borrower, and they were really happy. Don’t turn a couple of encounters with inept customer service people into a global, across-the-enterprise act of malfeasance. Additionally, and perhaps in response to all the other ‘COUNTRYWIDE IS THE BIG BAD WOLF’ press we’re getting….READ YOUR FRIGGIN LOAN DOCS!!!! If the American public chooses to read at the 8th grade level, while the documents they sign (i.e., loan docs) that control their fate are written at the collegiate level, is that one company’s fault?!?! If someone cashes out 150,000 from their home’s equity, with a net change to payment of $10, and doesn’t question it, does that means the loan officer, funding company, title company, or servicer should be hung? Let’s all have a gut check, people. There are thousands of RVs, boats, and jetski’s out there because people REALLY want toys…but now can’t afford to pay for them.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:23 am
Ummm…yeah manager. The grass is always greener on the other side, isn’t it?
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:25 am
Why is everyone complaining about OPTION ARMS? Again…let’s read the loan documents and ensure we’re picking the right program for our borrowers! This is like saying guns or bullets are in and of themselves evil. Yeah…we have a LOT of power, and along with it come a LOT of responsibility. Perhaps the hiring managers who brought in the 19 year old to sell OPTION ARMS should be reemed as well???
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:29 am
I worked in selling the loans for CW. One day, there was a string of emails where one of Angelo’s friends was complaining to him about his prepayment penalty, and then you saw the reply from Angelo, asking to forgive the prepay. Keep in mind this loan was a megajumbo, and the prepayment penalty in question was around 60K. Guess its good to be Angelos friend….Is that really in the shareholders interest? Guess it doesnt matter when you sell like the end is near…
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:45 am
maybe someone should look at the da for criminal gustpo tatics
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:47 am
Well… if a loan is done in California, there are statutes protecting borrowers who do not speak English but sign documents in English. It’s quite complicated, but when applied correctly the law will undo the loans, though likely not for an investment property.
- Paul J. Molinaro
DISCLAIMER: My posts are for general information purposes only & are not legal advice. Please consult a local attorney for advice with your issue. I try to be accurate, but I make no guarantees. That is, I enjoy taking part in discussions, but don’t hold me to anything I write.
_____________________________
California Civil Code § 1632. Trade or business negotiating primarily in Spanish, Chinese, Tagalog, Vietnamese, or Korean
(b) Any person engaged in a trade or business who negotiates primarily in Spanish, Chinese, Tagalog, Vietnamese, or Korean, orally or in writing, in the course of entering into any of the following, shall deliver to the other party to the contract or agreement and prior to the execution thereof, a translation of the contract or agreement in the language in which the contract or agreement was negotiated, which includes a translation of every term and condition in that contract or agreement:
(1) A contract or agreement subject to the provisions of Title 2 (commencing with Section 1801) of, and Chapter 2b (commencing with Section 2981) and Chapter 2d (commencing with Section 2985.7) of Title 14 of, Part 4 of Division 3.
(2) A loan or extension of credit secured other than by real property, or unsecured, for use primarily for personal, family or household purposes.
(3) A lease, sublease, rental contract or agreement, or other term of tenancy contract or agreement, for a period of longer than one month, covering a dwelling, an apartment, or mobilehome, or other dwelling unit normally occupied as a residence.
(4) Notwithstanding paragraph (2), a loan or extension of credit for use primarily for personal, family or household purposes where the loan or extension of credit is subject to the provisions of Article 7 (commencing with Section 10240) of Chapter 3 of Part 1 of Division 4 of the Business and Professions Code, or Division 7 (commencing with Section 18000), or Division 9 (commencing with Section 22000) of the Financial Code.
(5) Notwithstanding paragraph (2), a reverse mortgage as described in Chapter 8 (commencing with Section 1923) of Title 4 of Part 4 of Division 3.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:47 am
maybe they should look at the main problem.The crooks are not the lenders or brokers.There easy to find go to DC the whole town is full of them.they work for the fed goverment
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:58 am
Rob,
Isn’t it ironic that the main blamers are coming from DC. Now they want to correct a problem they created years ago and billions of dollars later when the industry doesn’t or pretends to act like they don’t know what happened?
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 5:06 am
OK, so far I’ve ready numerous complaints about CW from Disgruntled ex-cw people. Sorry to say this but you probably don’t have a chance against CW’s legal team. Furthermore, there is no way possible that the above thread was generated by a California District Attorney.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 5:22 am
As a former title company employee, we were always told we were a neutral third party. When I would go over the HUD-1 with a borrower, I would always explain to the borrower that the YSP was what the lender paid the broker for their loan. If the loan had a prepayment penalty I would tell the borrower at least 5 times through out the closing that there was a prepayment penalty. I eventually got out of the title business because it was getting to the point where I couldn’t be a neutral third party any longer. It upset me to see borrowers getting taken advantage of day in and day out. It saddens me that the everyday consumer is not more educated. To say that it is the title company employee’s fault for not speaking up, remember we were always instructed that we were neutral parties. Poo Poo on the real estate agents for sending their buyers to lenders that were not on the up and up. I have been in the industry for 25 years. I can tell you that after all that time, there are two lenders that I would go to myself. Then, it also depends on the AE. Same company, different AE = different charges. I have seen it over and over.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 5:26 am
chris i was in DC and a senior exec from fannie mae said there in big trouble.He said they need a rescue plan now.Is not that funny because they lend only under there guide lines if true.Why did they loose 1.5 bill last quarter? I will tell you why they didnt lend subprime but they bought subprime then sold the loans over seas for a spread of 1.5% they guranteed the loans wait until the truth comes out just how crooked that whole company is and the whole town ofDC.By the way the confrence was on affordable housing no one gave a shit they showed up to look good all smoke out of there assess
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 5:32 am
Ray and everyone else. Do you really think that Angelo makes the decision’s on what products CW sells? If so, it is great that most of you are out of the industry. Without CW, none of you would have made a tremendous living for the last 6 years. Furthermore, you are all complaining about Option Arms. Do any of you pay attention to Bloomberg or CNBC? An analysis of market data will show you that the Option Arm was the best performing product for the 3.5 years. Look everyone, it’s OK to be angry because the market crashed but don’t make CW the scapegoat for something that we all did! You want to blame people? Blame state and Federal agencies for their failure to enforce the laws that currently in place. They are more concerned with generating revenue for the state then cracking down on all the people who put us in this position. The Mortgage Industry should be policed by Mortgage Pros. Similar to the FTC and the SEC there should be an enforcement agency for our industry. And please don’t respond to this and say that this is the responsibility of HUD. Bottom line, we created this mess and everyone involved will pay including consumers. The trick is not to come out with some magical program to save people. Our focus should be making sure thAT THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN!
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 5:55 am
Yup, that’s cw, always trying to pull a fast one. As a wholesale rep, we were told by our sales manager to sell the higher rate and drop the rebate or increase the cost to the borrower. Why? because at the end of every month the profit margin was well above what it should be. Unfortunately, the borrower ended taking the blunt of the cost. Yet, he still remains a sales manager. Not only that, but he is also sleeping with one of his rep. not to mention the savings account he opened for her to avoid a backlash. oh yeah.. that’s cw for you.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 6:08 am
Jo,
If your former title company solicited any broker business or real estate agent’s business then no, you weren’t really being neutral. I’ve seen title company’s throw parties and sponsor events to get that business, so guess where the loyalty will lie when confronted with an obvious problem. It doesn’t cleanse guilt by how many times to tell the client they are getting it right in the ass. If you saw wrong doing, then you should have stopped it. But like everyone of us in this industry, we are or were greedy bastards and we are paying for it. The agent didn’t want to lose the client. The broker didn’t want to lose the agent. The title company didn’t want to lose the agent and the broker. The appraiser didn’t want to lose the broker. The insurance agent didn’t want to lose the client. We are all connected. The loser is the client. In most cases the client was an after thought. However, the client isn’t off the hook. Like everything else, the client is responsible for doing their homework. Once you step outside of your home, its you against the world. Everyone is trying to get something, including the client. On a deal the client has time to due their due diligence regardless of what and how smooth the loan information sounds. A typical purchase takes thirty days. A refi can be as fast as two weeks, with a possible 3 day rescission. Come on, lets be real about this. Not to put you on the spot, but did you ever just stop a deal because it was just too obvious that the buyer was headed to foreclosure? You may have hinted at the possibility, but did you stop it and risk never getting another deal from all parties involved at the risk of being a good Samaritan and being black balled? Hell no. Your company closed that deal and cut those checks. When the funding hit that account it was game time. Now with 25 years in the industry under your belt, what are you doing to help people you say aren’t educated in buying a home. I hope you are still involved in real estate because it appears you care and that’s something that is missing. But you and everyone else can only do so much. This is a treacherous business and not what people see on tv. There is so much you can tell a client and they will ultimately do what they want to. I’m guilty of it as well as everyone else.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 6:27 am
So again, they are guilty of taking part in the beginning what is now ruining us in the end. Oh yeah, they don’t have an answer now. We have to figure that one out.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 6:40 am
Moe those are great points, and believe me when I tell you that being a homeowner advocate is a good thing. However, you must understand the mortgage biz to be able to “sniff out” krap when you see it.
I would say that your 99x out of 100 is a little off. In addition, subprime programs out there were real aggressive, because get this “people wanted aggressive programs.” When things were going well you didn’t hear half the bs that your hearing now. All of a sudden that person that was leveraging one home on one another, found out that some vacanies are killing there monthly income. Or the properties are no longer appreciating like they once were. Or someone decided that they wanted to put granite countertops, real woods floors and a 3 car garage on a 100k home, and they didn’t get it back in appreciation. Or your finding that the people that had 30k in credit card debt, and wanted to consolidate, went out and rang up another 30k for the 5th time, and now the well has run dry…
Believe me being an advocate is a great thing. It’s just that when you have taken a said “recovering spender”, and trying to put them into there 4th rehab…. there’s a time when you have to call a spade a spade, and call it quits.
As for people doing loans that don’t speak english?? I find it kind or ironic, that it is real easy to see someone that doesn’t speak english signging documents. Think about it. If you were dealing with a mortgage lender that only spoke chinese, and you didn’t, would you continue to do business with them?? And don’t you think if you did that there is something that you might miss?
I just hope that once this mess is over, that people can start being held responsible for there actions. hmmmmm.. I owe 150,000 on my house and these papers are saying my new loan is going to be for 178,000, but Im not getting any cash back…. Am I getting a good deal???
Sorry about the previous comments about Moe being an attorney, I didn’t mean to provide misinformation. At the same time, I really shouldn’t apologize, because no one here with your site seems to…
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 6:41 am
what are you talking about?
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 6:59 am
Please use spacing in your posts.
It’s hard on the eyes to try and read everything crammed together, especially if your post is lengthy.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
will do
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Banker008,
Don’t get bent out of shape for reading what I am about to say. You need to talk just a little bit more professional and more educated. First, “per day falls” - needs a comma. Second, “sour so decided” - needs a comma, no subject. Third, “at your ex-employer” - “your” is 1st person which conflicts with 3rd person “the Poor Undrewriter”. Fourth, “RASPA/HUD” - who’s rAspa? Fifth, “whished” should be wish. Sixth, “so we all know that we” - if you already “know” why does she need to publish her name? It’s unlikely she would go to work for a Girl/Boy Friday like you that can’t spell, punctuate, compose a grammatically correct letter.
Thank you for pointing out all the entities we should “blame” after castigating us for “blaming” your employer CW.
By the way, what is a COCAIN Investor? As a CW employee, YOU are the one on “Survival Island” - do you know how to swam?
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Bless you. I was a manager at CW and ONCE I reported something to the Ethics Hotline about having to fill out a somewhat PERSONAL questionaire for my male boss. Believe me, it went “NO WHERE”… It was not long ’til I was NOT manager.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
I have worked in the mortgage industry for 15 years and worked for CW for 4. I was offered positions several times in operations but refused because of the experiences of friends in the industry who had worked for Countrywide. Eventually I relented because my former manager went to work for them and I thought that maybe all those horrible things I’d heard over the years really couldn’t be true. They were. They screw both sales and ops in different ways, but screwed none the less. I’ve left many positions but always on good terms and would go back to work for several of my former employers if the right opportunity arose. This is not my feeling with Countrywide. If ever a company deserved to be brought to its knees, it’s this one.
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Very interesting stuff there. This is really beneficial when a client is facing imminent foreclosure but needs more time to file a case for predatory lending. This would stop the foreclosure until an injunction in association with predatory lending claims could be obtained.
When fixing big problems, every tool in the belt needs to be used.
- Paul
Posted on November 13th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
what a stupid (removed), hey let me take out four mortgages when i can’t read english,
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Geez Moe…. where are all the smart ass loan officers that have something dumb to say about Countrywide and how much money they are not making now?
You post something of HUGE significance like this post about Deutsche Bank and they just don’t friggen get it or it is just out of their league…….
Hopefully some smart attorneys will take this info and run. That Ms, Charney lady knows her stuff. I forwarded this to my attorney and he is absolutely thrilled to use this my case and the other ones he is fighting.
Good news, I’m in Ohio! Keep up the good work and REAL posts
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 1:59 am
LOOSER !! Sitting home without a job? Is that the best you can do? What is the real subject here? NOTHING. NOTHING of NOTHING is NOTHING like you present moment.
Sounds like you are a sour looser afterall. Which of my three points got to you? Are you the looser AE? or the LOOSER underwriter?
Attacking grammer, comma, or spelling..etc. isn’t going to help you. Being nasty is probably that you are good at. This lending world will do just fine without a LOOSER and NASTY person like you. Being a SOUR looser again will not help either. What is your subject here? I guess you don’t have rebuttle or arguement afterall!
For everyone else, this is a great example of my earlier post. Blame CW, blame OPTION ARM, blame grammer, comma…etc. At the end of the day, education is still part of equation. This industry hired too many fast talkers, non-educated and GREEDY AEs and Loan Officers.
Soccerdad, boy you sure have allot of time. From early in the morning posting to late night. Are you that “District Attoney” - fake posting here? or looking to suit make a quick buck because you need gas money to take your kid for a soccer game?
Try harder. LOOSER Stay on the subject would U?
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 4:11 am
That makes you to be a senior in the subject of ignorance. Do you have any decent subject on this blog or just attack everyone? LOOSER, seriously you need to go find a job. Hummm, let’s if you can find one. Not educated = no job. Go collect food stamp Soccer DAD! LOOSER
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 4:33 am
Are you stupid or just flat out an idiot? why don’t you also post contact your president too.
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 4:35 am
Eric, that thread is generated by the “SOCCERDAD”. I think not only he is DISGRUNTLED but also he is missing few links up there…. Nice try California DA..
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 4:38 am
Agree!
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 4:41 am
I agree with some of your points.
You say - “As for people doing loans that don’t speak English?? I find it kind or ironic, that it is real easy to see someone that doesn’t speak English signing documents. Think about it. If you were dealing with a mortgage lender that only spoke Chinese, and you didn’t, would you continue to do business with them?? And don’t you think if you did that there is something that you might miss?”
I’m confused. The biggest problem with anyone that doesn’t understand English is that they cannot read it. So, we whatever is negotiated verbally can be totally different then what is on the actual paper.
A non-English speaking borrower is at a HUGE disadvantage in any contract situation. Were they taken advantage of?
MORE THEN ANYONE CAN IMAGINE!
Did some of these borrowers commit fraud? Of course. But the fraud was more rampant by 1,000,000 fold (just a guess based on my Google and own personal findings) on the front end of the transaction.
Bottom line. Everyone made their money and bailed or were forced out and now, the homeowners are left holding the bag.
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 5:49 am
Banker008,
As I stay on topic, I point out the following. First, “LOOSER” should be “Loser” - check it out on Urban Dictionary.com. Second, “afterall” is two words. Third, “probably that” should be “probably what”. Fourth, “rebuttle” is spelled “rebuttal”. Fifth, “arguement” is spelled “argument”. Sixth, “allot” is not a word, nor is “alot”. Seventh, “looking to suit make” - what is that?! Lastly, I agree with you that “education is still part of equation” - perhaps you should finish the 10th grade.
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
No personal attacks please.
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Way to keep your cool Soccerdad. That shows your maturity and education level.
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
At first glance, it does seem that someone who signs a contract that they cannot read should not be able to get out of the contract because they could not read it. After all, that person should have had someone translate the contract. Even better, if it was a complex contract, say a home loan for example, they should have hired a mortgage professional to translate the contract.
No doubt, you can see where I’m going with this… THEY DO HIRE MORTGAGE PROFESSIONALS.
And this is why the law needs to protect the non-English speaking borrower. In the State of California, if a broker (a professional hired to look out for the borrower) provides translation or explains the terms of a mortgage in the native language of a borrower but presents the contract in English, that contract is voidable.
This is something we see at my office all the time. Borrowers taken advantage of by brokers and loan officers from their own culture… who they trusted… who they hired and paid a huge sum to negotiate the best loan… who was supposed to look out for their best interest… who had a fiduciary duty under the law to look out for their best interest.
Shameful… but more important illegal. But the law provides help by making that contract voidable.
- Paul J. Molinaro
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Are you messing with me?
Makes no difference to me, this is kind of fun!
Keep at it.
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
Countrywide shut down their CMD divison as of this morning.
Not good at all for the company…
BOA/Countrywide Merger????
Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
This thread is getting nasty!