Let the truth be known. Most homeowners do not respond or fight back when they are facing foreclosure. The lender files the notice of default and the court hearing comes and goes without an appearance from the defendant (homeowner). Four to six months later, the trustee’s sale happens on the court steps and the home owner becomes another foreclosure statistic.
However, there are unique cases of people that just won’t lie down and take it. They fight back to protect their property rights and against injustice.
Richard Davet, a homeowner from Ohio is a man that I consider a modern day hero. He is a role model to hundreds of thousands of other Americans that are facing foreclosure.
In 1996, Mr. Davet was served with a foreclosure notice on his Cuyahoga County, Ohio 1940’s 6 bedroom home. Unlike many homeowners that just take their foreclosure medicine and move on to rent, Richard Davet decided he was going to fight back against NationsBanc Mortgage Corp. and challenge them till the end in an Ohio court of law.
Davet planted his heels firmly and turned his fight into a full time job as he hit the books at the library of Case Western Law School. He began his fight by challenging the lawsuit and then prolonged the suit by flooding the court with motions, objections and affidavits, and he appealed the judge’s rulings at every chance, which bought him 11 years mortgage payment free in his home.
“Mr. Davet has litigated these same issues over and over again…and in each instance the courts have dismissed his claims,” said Bank of America Corp., Charlotte, N.C., which merged with the owner of NationsBanc.
Several years into the case, Bank of America took the unusual step of bringing in lawyers from a big corporate law firm, Jones Day. Five years later, in 2005, a judge granted foreclosure in the amount Mr. Davet owed and set a sale date for the property so that the creditors could take the sale proceeds. But when the property finally went to sale, Mr. Davet set up a shell company to win the auction, for $436,000. He couldn’t pay more than the required $10,000 deposit, but the move delayed his eviction by months.
Mr. Davet says it wasn’t a delay tactic and that he was trying to line up investors to buy the property. The house was later sold to another family for $410,000.
The eviction finally happened on a snowy day in January of this year. Don Saunders, who lived three doors down from Mr. Davet and is a trustee of the neighborhood association, says it came as a shock in the upscale area.”
Some people would call Mr. Davet a foreclosure fighter and pioneer. Other critics have called him a “deadbeat.” I call him a hero because he is a man of his convictions and has tremendous will power.
“The mortgage company that filed the suit, then NationsBanc Mortgage Corp., had so much trouble with the case that four years into it they brought in lawyers from Jones Day.”
I obtained this quote from the law firm’s website:
“Since 1893, Jones Day has grown, in response to our clients’ needs, from a small, local practice to a truly global firm with more than 2,300 lawyers in 30 offices around the world. Today, Jones Day is one of the most recognized and respected law firms in the world, and we count more than 250 of the Fortune 500 among our clients.”
I think it’s quite amusing that a homeowner from Cuyahoga County, Ohio gave this powerful, 2,300 lawyer and 30 office law firm an 11 year fight.
More form WSJ:
“Mr. Davet continued to try, unsuccessfully, to get the federal court to agree that the state judgment was invalid. Then, a possible lifeline arrived this past October, when a federal judge in Cleveland, Christopher A. Boyko, dismissed 14 foreclosure suits because the plaintiffs that brought them couldn’t prove they owned the mortgages when the suits were filed.
Such a problem can occur when mortgages are turned into securities and sold to investors. The companies involved in the transaction may not have checked that each mortgage was legally transferred, or “assigned,” to the new owners. In essence, the originating lender continued to legally own the mortgage — and would thus need to be the plaintiff in a foreclosure suit. In Mr. Davet’s case, however, the mortgage, which was not securitized, changed hands multiple times and wasn’t actually owned by NationsBanc until three years after the company filed suit.
Other judges have since followed Judge Boyko’s lead. The Ohio attorney general has asked numerous judges to dismiss or delay foreclosures based on similar grounds.
Earlier this month, Mr. Davet filed a second federal appeal, this time citing the Boyko ruling, which he believes he inspired. It’s unclear whether the latest salvo will work. If it doesn’t, Mr. Davet says, he will set his sights on the U.S. Supreme Court.”
There are numerous debates circulating in the blog-sphere and forum arena on the internet in regards to foreclosure defense actions and the recent Ohio rulings. We reported on the recent Judge Boyko ruling and other similar rulings that are coming out of Ohio. These cases and many like them are at the forefront of the foreclosure legal battle and will remain a hot topic as the foreclosure crisis continues with no apparent end in sight.
Here are some of the interesting comments circulating on the internet:
“It is heartwarming to see, that the Law can be worked by a “pro se” party. If the Bank had to bring in the awesome gun of Jones Day, then the Law can work. It is not that the party managed to live 11 years for free, for if you count the billable hours to learn the law, free is then an abstract. A delay in the foreclosure could only occur if the Court’s gave merti to his arguments. Which must have had some validity to take this long. Kudos to the system for making a grant effort and doing correctly. “ comment by bboy
“As both a corporate and general practice lawyer, I’m with JC and bboy, but am really appalled at the name calling and lack of analysis of most of the other responders. I’ve also had a mortgage closing business back in the mid ’80’s when things went belly up, and I’ve seen a lot (but hardly all).
There is a big difference between having the Note, which allows you to sue for the repayment of the debt, and having the ownership of the property which a mortgage affords, and allows you to foreclose. If you don’t “own” the mortgage, you have no right to foreclose it, and you can’t foreclose for fees. Take it from there – these rights of ownership are important! Too many lenders are ripping us off with unjustified fees. I think the borrower here was actually doing the law and financing a great service.” Comment by laserhaas.
“Judges like this one clamor for more pay as they waste mountains of tax dollars pampering a pro se debtor tying up the court for how long? ELEVEN YEARS?!?” Comment by Increased judicial salaries? HA!!!
I agree with JC–if you read the article carefully you will note two things:
1. The entire legal process stemmed from NationsBanc’s allegedly erroneous tacking on of 90 separate sets of late fees, which the bank subsequently was largely unable to conclusively document were connected to payments actually made late.
2. NationsBanc apparently did not even own the mortgage in question (presumably the first mortgage) until 3 years after it initiated the initial foreclosure action.
“When I worked for a federal judge in Ohio I saw my fair share of “jailhouse lawyer” lawsuits from prisoners and their persistent and baseless motions. Mr. Davet’s actions remind me of those days. If he was a licensed attorney, he could certainly face disciplinary actions.
Of course, his unwillingness to pay legal fees may evince his cheap character.
As for his central argument of note ownership, I am curious to see if Ohio is willing to hinder securitizations by forcing the loan originator to hold onto the note.” Comment by Cleveland Esq.
“As a corporate lawyer who has a little bit of familiarity with the ins and outs of large banks, I am wholly unsurprised that someone who actually READ the terms of their mortgage papers would be able to drag out a process this long. Many of these banks have a HORRIFIC record of maintaining accurate and complete records on borrowers. In this situation, this failure to maintain records properly left the borrower subject to allegedly erroneous late fees that made payment of his mortgage impossible.
This case should act as a wake up call to the mortgage servicers of the nation: your sole value added to the process is to KEEP TRACK OF THE PAPERWORK. Don’t expect every borrower to be instantly cowed by a lawsuit or a foreclosure notice–there are folks out there (even non-lawyers) who can read and will use the boilerplate in the contracts (together with common law contracts doctrines) to stymie your efforts to go after ‘deadbeat’ borrowers.
All in all, Mr. Davet’s lawsuit shows that the legal system does work. By requiring lenders to actually DOCUMENT their claims, maybe, just maybe, this case will lead to better customer service and an end to frivolous fees.” Comment by Huntting
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It is about time that the American people stand up againt the injustice that is perpetuated by these lawless lenders. Regardless if this suit was prolongged for 11 years. It serves as notice to lenders that we can and will fight back.
Moe, you should organize a nationwide campaign and stick it to these lenders. You seem like the perfect person to start such an effort.
Imagine 100,000 lawsuits being defended pro-se in every court in the country. Lender would be royally screwed and I am sure they would change their tune. FAST!
We will definitely see alot more of these cases as homeowners began to realize that they can fight back using simple motions and please to delay any foreclosure.
An idiot could live payment free for a minimum of 90-120 days, if they just filed simple forms and answers to the forclosure action. But like Moe said, most just cave and become a foreclosure statisic to go rent somewhere when they could have saved $3,000-$10,000 by sticking to the lender for a few months or more.
All is fair in love and war and this is war my friends.
What did NationsBank ever do to this scumbag? From my recollection, Nations only offered A paper loans – and generally at quite competitive rates. This guy gets a perfectly good loan and proceeds to try to weasel out of paying it through a series of BS legal manuevers. All those who say “screw the banks” should just pay cash for their next house. Of course, all of the legal cost incurred by the bank in this case – merely to recoup money that they’d lent this A hole – will get passed on to other borrowers in the form of higher costs for their next mortgage. This guy didn’t “screw the bank”, he just helped add another dollar or two or cost onto the loans of a million other borrowers.
Amusing, you obviously can’t read. He challenged them on bogus fees that they could not prove. Lenders and servicers are debt collectors an they need to follow the law. Abuse and scmas in the mortgage servicing industry is the hidden 1000 pound gorilla that needs to be publicized. Another great post from the man who tells it like it is. Not like these high paid journalists that get paid to mislead and propagate garbage.
let’s see Moe, don’t pay your mortgage and live for 11 years in a house you cannot afford for free.= scumbag that should be sent to debtors prison somewhere in hell
OK where is the Bigwig bank executive that did the Cost/Benefit analysis on this situation? Couldn’t they have just waived the fees in the beginning of this mess, and get the borrower back to paying his mortgage on a regular basis? Then they’d still have a performing loan, and a happy customer. A win/win yes?
I’ve heard that the servicers could be saving hundreds of loans from foreclosure by modifying the loans, but they’re not contacting the customers. Why isn’t the industry being more pro-active in regulating this mess into a manageable situation? Hasn’t the president urged these people to fix the problems? Why aren’t more people screaming at them to correct this mess?
It’s time for the banks/servicers/investors to take off their Asshats!
Very intriguing story but I would what the story is behind payment of real estate taxes, hazard insurance, MI, association fees during this 11 year period. Who paid these? The borrower or the lender?
I totally enjoyed the article. I have a lot of admiration for this gentleman. So many individuals are intimidated by the system. Mortgae companies make mistakes on a daily basis.
Hopefully this will help Attorneys learn more on both sides as to what is the correct way to handle a foreclosure. It does show that Financial Institutions have really taken advantage of individuals when they are down on there financial resources and good legal representation comes at a price.
I wonder what 11 years of billable hours looks like?
This is a perfect example of someone abusing the system to get what they want. Mr. Davet didn’t pay his payments, so he was in default of his “PROMISSARY NOTE”, where he promised to make his payments on time. The lender has every right to foreclose on someone if they decide they just don’t want to make payments anymore. This type of “delay, delay, delay” action by individuals (filing frivilous motion after motion just to gain time), is used continously by the worst type of grifters, scam artists & general scumbags in our society; to my mind, Mr. Davet is obviously one of them. I think the lender should go after him for a deficiency judgement, if the amount of his 11 years of non payments was not covered by the sale of his home; it’ll prevent more ridiculous abuses like this from happening.
Illuman23
December 28th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
OK where is the Bigwig bank executive that did the Cost/Benefit analysis on this situation? Couldn’t they have just waived the fees in the beginning of this mess, and get the borrower back to paying his mortgage on a regular basis? Then they’d still have a performing loan, and a happy customer. A win/win yes?
I’ve heard that the servicers could be saving hundreds of loans from foreclosure by modifying the loans, but they’re not contacting the customers. Why isn’t the industry being more pro-active in regulating this mess into a manageable situation? Hasn’t the president urged these people to fix the problems? Why aren’t more people screaming at them to correct this mess?
It’s time for the banks/servicers/investors to take off their Asshats!
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The problem with Mr. Davet is, he was more than likely offered the ability to stop the foreclosure by just making up the back payments, or was offered the ability to stop the foreclosure in it’s place by making his current payments + 1/12 of the late payments each month (it’s called a forebearance). Probably, Mr. Davet said no, and decided simply to have fun at others expense by seeing how long he could stay in a house he couldn’t be bothered to make payments on. The previous poster is right; he’s a scam artist & should not be revered.
Regarding servicers modifying loans per the President, what you need to know is his “idea” shows how much he truly doesn’t understand how the mortgage industry & markets work; I’m sure some political advisor of his told him to say this, because it’ll make him look “Presidential” & that he’s “addressing the problem”. Poppycock. The problem is, these loans have been sold to the end use investor (401K & trust companies, insurance firms, pension & profit sharing programs, etc); they pay a certain amount for a loan with certain terms. If they are forced to modify the loan to accomodate the borrower (who took out a loan they couldn’t pay back), they lose money that they were expecting to earn. The end use investor will go back to the company they bought it from & demand a refund on part of their investment price. This will cause many MAJOR lawsuits that will rage for decades, will put MANY banks, retirement firms, investment houses & large mortgage companies out of business, will put many people out of work, and will only lengthen & worsen the blight we find ourselves in.
I know it’s unpopular to say, but there is a solution to this problem, and that is to let people who don’t make their loan payments get foreclosed on. I hate saying it (I don’t like seeing people being hurt any more than the next guy), but we need to look at the foreclosure problem like it’s a free market economy; the freedom to succeed is also the freedom to fail. If left alone, the real estate markets (with all the current foreclosure problems) will hurt the economy for the short term (2-3 years), but will correct itself as all free market economies do. Artificially forcing poorly thought out legislation or politically motivated “ideas” into the free markets ALWAYS creates more problems than they solve; if we’ve learned nothing in the past 90+ years, we should remember that.
Okay JeffyBoy, while I understand what you are saying, I have a question for you. These 2/28 ARMS, etc were designed to be a loan the borrower would have for 2 years, then refinance out of them. How would the investment companies loose if they modified the loan, and had that interest for 28 years, rather than just the 2 years before a refinance? How is it that you think a foreclosure is BETTER than them modifiying the loan and collecting 7% – 8% for 28 years??? Wouldn’t they loose MORE by foreclosing??? Enlighten me, won’t ya?
Yeah, Jeffboy, enlighten US, please!!!!!!
I’ll help Jeffyboy out here.
Heather you ask a great question, most people feel the same as you.
1. First of all, we need to understand we are on the edge of a National Housing Bust. If you don’t believe me, take a look at any city in Florida, AZ, NV, CA. **Don’t Look at “Sold” comps from July or Aug, like Realtors or appraisers would have you do. Look at the listings, the only reason the sold comps are lower is because none are selling. I’ve seen properties in Fort Meyeres, FL previously sold for $270,000 where recent sold comps are $160,000. I’m looking at listings yesterday and found two model matches LISTED at 100k. If I want to sell my property in 30 days what would I have to List and Sell at? Scarry right?
Econ 101 tells you there is NO end in sight because the number of homes for sale is higher then it has ever been. Couple that with no mortgage programs out there.
2. the “2/28″ borrower took a lower rate than they would have received if they went with the 30 year fixed for two reasons. A. They took the risk of an ARM because their credit was not great and have “hope” that they will raise their credit and refinance into a 30 year fixed in two years. or B, they cannot afford the higher payments and security of the 30 year fixed.
Both reasons, bad credit, cashflow issues, usually lead to foreclosures in depreciating housing markets because they cannot refi their ways out to pay off credit cards and get cash to live on unitl the next refi.
If the borrower has not been able to refi as planned why would you delay the inevitable in a heavily depreciating market?
Should they take a 100k loss today or a 300k loss in three years?
Its an easy decision for me..
Thanks for helping us Zboy, but that wasn’t so helpful bud.
I don’t care what lenders lose. They should have never quailied these borrwers at the teaser rate. These loans were not meant for long term, yet there were qualified on short term.
These loans are predatory has a Lion on an African plain. They eat people alive and spit them out, half dead by the time they are done with them.
Let me help you out-
If lenders do not work with borrowers, then there will be a mass exodus of homeowers and that $300k loss will be more like $500k.
But you are right. Lenders are just playing lip service to the American people by this BS Hope Now crap and the FHA Secure and as soon as they catch on, it will be time to play war with these guys.
My goal is to organize hundreds of thousands of homeowners to protest lenders and just stop paying their mortgage and file suits against them, one at a time.
I guarantee, that will put the power bcak in the peoples hands, where it belongs!
from top to bottom, there are no good guys in this story
to all those sheeple crying out for the gubammit to do something…
you make me sick!
in Amerika the grasshoppers eat the ants
This war is gonna happen!!
The WHOLE REASON for the 2-28 was to make FEES, FEES, and more FEES!!
Lets see what happens when the Class Action Types ‘JUST DO IT’ !!!
I knew this was a lefty blog, but I didn’t realize to what extent. Moe displays a Stalin-like desire to confiscate the wealth of anyone he doesn’t like. He said, “I don’t care what lenders lose.” and “My goal is to organize hundreds of thousands of homeowners to protest lenders and just stop paying their mortgage and file suits against them, one at a time.” How about, instead, if borrowers would just grow a schwantz and repay the Note they signed? Remind me never to lend YOU any money, Moe, you big whiner.
Moe, I was answering Heathers comment: “How is it that you think a foreclosure is BETTER than them modifiying the loan and collecting 7% – 8% for 28 years??? Wouldn’t they loose MORE by foreclosing??? Enlighten me, won’t ya?”
Wow, undelievable, I agree with you. Here’s a hint folks, don’t sign the Friggin papers if you cant pay. This is the most free country in the world and NOONE forced you to sign anything. YOU made the decision. I made the decsion to rent because of the risks that YOU ignored. Don’t blame Chevrolet for the used car saleman who sold you the “lady driven” Corvett for $500. Do your own damn research.
I’d wish you good luck but you wouldnt know what to do with it…you’d probably buy a new house 100% financing stated loan if you could….
Moe wrote ~My goal is to organize hundreds of thousands of homeowners to protest lenders and just stop paying their mortgage and file suits against them, one at a time.
I guarantee, that will put the power bcak in the peoples hands, where it belongs!
Wow! Anarchy! That is a mighty goal! How on earth or you going to prove, in a court of law, that everyone involved in the transaction cheated EXCEPT your homeowners, Moe? If the borrower signed the disclosures and the disclosures were prepared and sent in compliance with state and federal regulations, how are you going to prove coercion? It is going to be a he said/she said proposition. I admire what you are doing, trying to help the homeowners in trouble. I am sure some of them were the victim of predatory lending practices. But wouldn’t it benefit your cause more if you prosecuted the cases that can be documented and proven and then alert the media?
Virginia, Class Actions are brought before Courts all the time, and part of the basis of their merit is the sheer number of people who have suffered the same fate.
How is Moe going to prove that everyone involved in the loan committed fraud except for the homeowner and that the buyer was coerced?
Well, by the sheer number of people who will come forth with the SAME story, under the SAME SCENARIO, involving different people, places and players, who strangely use the SAME TACTICS and sold the SAME LOANS in the SAME WAY to the SAME TYPES OF PEOPLE.
That’s how you prove mass fraud, by looking at the pattern of behavior and the consistent results.
Hmmm, let’s see millions of homeowners were put into homes that they could not afford through loans that afforded them an initial teaser rate which pretty much blew up in their faces all within a very identifiable time period so that they could no longer pay the loan, however at the same time the banks and investors were raking in massive amounts of fees and the indebtedness of these buyers grew and grew and grew???
A coincidence?
Let’s look a little deeper.
Mortgage Brokers amassed large fees on these same loans and peddled them out like crack to an addict and banks topped the deal off with a prepayment penalty that locked the poor fools into the situation so that they couldn’t get out?
Immaterial?
We can look deeper and find more curious coincidences, too. That’s how you prove fraud.
ZBoy…You say this: “Both reasons, bad credit, cashflow issues, usually lead to foreclosures in depreciating housing markets because they cannot refi their ways out to pay off credit cards and get cash to live on unitl the next refi.”…Let me tell you a little something….I DID NOT pull cash out on my refi…I have plenty of + income to support even 9% if I have to…So, are you telling me that I will loose my home to foreclosure if they modify my loan??? I think not… There may be some that chose to use their homes as banks, and for those people, they should suffer their mistakes, because wells do run dry, and to keep pulling out money from your home to survive is an accident waiting to happen…I am a family of 5…We live a VERY average lifestyle…We have 1 car that is 4 years old….2 credit cards with 0 balances….And NO OTHER debts (other than regular monthly expenses such as food, utilites, and insurance)…WE were put into an ARM not because of horrible credit, but because we were told that the 2/28 ARM would give us this benefit, that benefit, blah blah blah(mind you the purpose of my refinance was to add my husband to the loan, as he was not initially on it, again, NOT to use it as an ATM machine)…I TRUSTED the broker that SOLD me my loan…I never had any reason not to…He came highly recommended by several people….BUT, here I sit, with my fate in some Vice Presidents hands, wondering where myself, my husband, and 3 children will rest our heads…This is NOT a pity party by any means, but how can you honestly say that my family doesn’t deserve help? I am certainly not alone in this crisis, and there are many families like mine…But, on another note, I am totally okay if the bank really wants my home…They can have it…I have a foreclosure sitting across from me that was just reduced to 124k (I owe 190k on my house), I have a house next to me that is empty because when the owner found out that he was loosing his house, he killed himself in it (wonder how long it will take that house to sell?), and here is plenty more in my area. I am not ashmed to be a renter, I had my piece of the AMERICAN DREAM, and it was STOLEN from me, bottom line….
What a mess. What most people don’t seem to comprehend when they want to punish the banks is that the money being lost IS NOT THE BANKS’ MONEY BUT RATHER THAT OF THE DEPOSITORS. The problem is that the banks made loans in amounts vastly in excess of collateral valuation and thus seriously risked loss of funds their depositors (all of us in America with any funds in banks) entrust(ed) them with. With property (collateral) values falling, the situation is going to get a lot worse and banks will fail. Banks are not rich entities as opposed to popular myth. The actual net worth (equity) of banks is typically less than 4% of assets (mostly loans and securities) or liabilities (deposits). In the case of the largest bank in the US, Citibank, their total real equity is less than $60 billion dollars versus $2.4 trillion in liabilities which is around 2.5%. In real terms if you have a deposit of $100 at Citibank, their equity in relationship to your deposit is only about $2.50. Moreover, the notion that deposits are insured by the FDIC is far more of a delusion than a reality as the total funds on hand at the FDIC to cover deposits is only around $50 billion versus around $20 trillion in deposits. If the tiny amounts of equity (net worth) that the banks still have are impaired significantly, they become INSOLVENT. Yes, it is the fault of bank management who should be thrown out on the tails in many cases, but it is the PROBLEM OF DEPOSITORS (ALL OF US) to get a workable and realistic solution to this utter mess. Foreclosures are part of that process and the quicker they get done the better providing they are fully legal and proper based on the terms of the mortgage contract and all applicable state laws. The lesson in all of this is that BANKS SHOULD BE REQUIRED BY STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS TO BE VERY CONSERVATIVE ON COLLATERAL REQUIREMENTS AND NO DO LOANS OVER 80% OF PROPERTY VALUES BASED ON HISTORICAL RATES OF APPRECIATION. The era of “comps” as “value” needs to come to a halt. Here in California, a house could have cost as little as $20,000 40 years ago and today would be worth $1.5 million in “land value alone” based on comparable properties selling in the neighborhood. That meant a bank would lend in 2006 100% of the $1.5 million amount to a dodgy borrower, even though by historical appreciation, the property should be worth only a maximum of $200,000. As a nation, we better start applying some common sense and historical intelligence to valuations as that is the heart of this entire property with inadequate collateral. Another way to look at valuation is the price of the property versus the median income in the area. In the old days it was around 2 or 3 times which meant the where the median income was $20,000 then the median house property price was $40,000 to $60,000 which meant it was affordable and all of the nonsensical messes of today never occurred on any substantial scale. Obviously, however, if the median income is $50,000 and the median house price is $500,000 then the ratio is a highly unaffordable 10 times income which again is at the root of the problems today. The cure, of course, is to get property values down to affordable levels and that is exactly what the market is doing and foreclosures are just a necessary part of that process.
Heather, Me, too. Same situation. Defrauded by the Broker into an Option ARM time bomb.
Jim, those people you want to foreclose on, they are the depositors in the banks. They are one and the same.
Heather,
Something doesn’t compute. Who in proper state of mind is going to pay 2-5k (refinance fees) just to add another name to mortgage note without being lied to ? If you were convinced to to fork out 2-5k and didn’t pull any cash/rolled in other debts and just added name to mortgage note that’s a pretty good indication of coercion and zero benefit. Did you get lower rate or about the same rate as the old note ? If there is little rate difference that’s a rare example case for a lemon mortgage with zero benefit: no cash out, no debt roll ins, marginally if at all lower rate, etc, just the broker fees. This has deception and predatory lending written all over it and I would strongly encourage legal action. This is classic picture of middlemen run amok: they generate transaction just for the sake of transaction. Doesn’t matter if both counter parties are worse off after it.
15 Moe
December 29th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Thanks for helping us Zboy, but that wasn’t so helpful bud.
I don’t care what lenders lose. They should have never quailied these borrwers at the teaser rate. These loans were not meant for long term, yet there were qualified on short term.
These loans are predatory has a Lion on an African plain. They eat people alive and spit them out, half dead by the time they are done with them.
Let me help you out-
If lenders do not work with borrowers, then there will be a mass exodus of homeowers and that $300k loss will be more like $500k.
But you are right. Lenders are just playing lip service to the American people by this BS Hope Now crap and the FHA Secure and as soon as they catch on, it will be time to play war with these guys.
My goal is to organize hundreds of thousands of homeowners to protest lenders and just stop paying their mortgage and file suits against them, one at a time.
I guarantee, that will put the power bcak in the peoples hands, where it belongs!
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Good luck with that one, Moe. You’re probably going to have to quit your job (if you have one) to work fulltime to try to make this happen; it sounds like Don Quixote tilting against windmills to me.
Regarding Heather’s comments & Moe’s replies, let me say simply that no one wins in this mess. There’s plenty of blame to go around: Loan Officers & Mortgage Brokers who have no business being in the industry (good example; the LO who pushed the option Arm on JacMac; I’m sure the LO didn’t understand how the loan works & disclosed it improperly to JacMac; this happens OFTEN), Lenders bringing out RIDICULOUS programs they had no business bringing to market, incredible greed & avarice by Wall Street Investment firms driven to make the maximum gain NO MATTER WHAT, Real Estate Agents artificially boosting listing prices to gain the maximum commissions, appraisers making ridiculous adjustments to support the artificially inflated values, etc. For example, in my state, we didn’t require Loan Officer licensing or background checks until recently. Also, borrowers have a role in this too; it’s their responsibility to read their disclosures, ask questions about things they don’t understand and for god’s sake DON’T sign documents until they’re totally secure in how their loans work. So, there’s plenty of places to point the finger of blame at.
So, we know the causes, but this doesn’t solve the current problem. No matter what we do, people are going to get hurt. As a State Licensed Mortgage Broker (yes, the actual Broker, not an LO illegally calling himself a Mortgage Broker because he works for a Brokerage) who actually cares about his clients & happily has none of them being foreclosed on, it hurts me to see what’s going on. We need to find a solution that addresses the problem we face, is equitable and doesn’t elongate the issue more than is necessary. Rewriting loans sounds like a good idea, but the problem is the people who’s loans would be rewritten at 7-8% are not making their payments now at 7% or 7.5% interest only; these people will more than likely end up being foreclosed on again later down the line. So, by introducing artificial forces in a free market economy, we automatically set ourselves up for ANOTHER wave of foreclosures in 2-5 years, seriously hampering the economy for a LONGER period of time. While I truly feel for them (I’ve seen foreclosure proceedings up close in the past, and it’s one of the ugliest things I’ve ever seen), do we make this mess worse or do we nip it in the bud? Do we force lenders to continue to rewrite & service loans that will more than likely again be foreclosures in the future, or do we allow them to follow the legal process written into law centuries ago that allows them to recoup their loses through sale of foreclosed property? As unpopular an idea as I’m sure it is, I believe that we need to let the markets sort themselves out naturally as free market economies, without the influence of artificially introduced forces. And that means people who don’t make their payments get foreclosed on. Which sucks. But is the fastest & most equitable solution to the problem that now faces us.
Jacmac and Moe~
Mass numbers coming forward to jump on the bandwagon for potential free money does not prove a case of fraud or coercion. I would love a comment from a legal attorney on the chances of winning a class action lawsuit such as you described. From one of the previous days post, CA SUCKER, was upset with mortgage brokers because his closing costs were $19,000! Appeared excessive to say the least. But when I asked him if he bought down his rate (he said he had a rate of 4.75% on a 5-1 ARM) he said “Uh……oh yeah, I guess we did buy down the rate which in turn costs 3 discount points (these are not points that the LO participates in-). The loan amount was in the mid-four hundred thousands, so you have a 1 point origination fee (which is typical) and a 3 point discount rate for a total of four points – which is somewhere between $16,000 to $18,000. He wasn’t coerced into buying down his rate. He said he needed the lowest rate possible unto 2010 when he planned to retire. He wasn’t mad about the situation until values dropped and he got scared. He saw everyone was pointing the figure at the loan office/broker and he “jumped on the bandwagon”. Go read it for yourself. It was the forum for 12-23.
I do have sympathy for the person who has truly been taken advantage of by unscrupulous people. A lot of people on both sides are struggling, through no fault of their own. There is already a lot of adjustments taking place in the mortgage industry and most if not all of these “toxic, exotic” loan programs have been eliminated. There will be stricter rules and regulations to help protect the consumer. Someone earlier in the post said “there is no free lunch”. Those who can prove fraud, collusion , coercion go for it, the participants should be sued and brought to justice. I just don’t see the success of a lawsuit such as you described in your post. Good luck with that.
JiminCA, your idea of “BANKS SHOULD BE REQUIRED BY STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS TO BE VERY CONSERVATIVE ON COLLATERAL REQUIREMENTS AND NO DO LOANS OVER 80% OF PROPERTY VALUES BASED ON HISTORICAL RATES OF APPRECIATION” is an ultra conservative knee-jerk reactionary statement. What you’re saying here is, no matter what a property is really worth in a free market, Banks should not be able to lend based on real values; they should be limited to values based on “traditional rates of appreciation”. So, if that’s the case, no one will ever use a bank to buy or refinance property; they’ll find other means because the banks will NEVER be competitive in loan amounts & Loan to values vs. other means. Banks making mortgage loans is their primary source of income (it’s lower margin than credit cards & other avenues, but is the highest overall source of revenue). Deny them this income stream & they’ll fold. The idea makes no sense because you haven’t considered the end result. Try again…
wow unbeleivabale says – “Moe displays a Stalin-like desire to confiscate the wealth of anyone he doesn’t like.”- I am a consumer advocate and consumers are getting the royal shaft by lenders. Millions have already and millions more. Yes, maybe many of these millions should lose their homes and many played investor or Donald Trump, let them drink their juice from the keg of hard knocks.
But for the homeowners that do not deserve to be foreclosed on, I am here for them and will fight till the end.
I would say that I am more like Thomas Jefferson, Stalin was a communist. I am a proud American that’s pist off at the system that has failed us miserably as a whole country sits on the brink of financial destruction at the hands of these banks and of course our president.
I am hell bent on fighting for American Homeowners that are having their properties taken from them and kicked out on the streets.
THAT’S WHAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH!!!!!!!
The power needs to be taken from these institutions and given back to the Amercan people.
“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” -THOMAS JEFFERSON
Well said Mr. Jefferson.
But hey maybe you like being a slave to the man or you are the man.
Virginia – Wow! Anarchy! That is a mighty goal!
Moe – That is not my goal and just FYI, the mortagage and real estate market is in complete anarchy right now and it looks like you all and the lenders and our government have been asleep at the wheel. My goals is to save those who deserve to be saved and use whatever means afforded by law to do so.
Virginia – How on earth or you going to prove, in a court of law, that everyone involved in the transaction cheated EXCEPT your homeowners, Moe?
Moe – Easy expert witness, one after the other, that will testify to the facts on how this industry works and what really goes on in the loan origination process, signing etc.
Virginia – If the borrower signed the disclosures and the disclosures were prepared and sent in compliance with state and federal regulations, how are you going to prove coercion?
Moe – Again, expert witnesses who knows how the signing take place, forgery, disclosures back dated at docs when they should have got the GFE within 72 hours. Stuff like that. Plus we are going to use TILA and RESPA, we do not need to play that game. Once TILA violations are found, then that loan is automatically rescindable.
Virginia – It is going to be a he said/she said proposition.
Moe – Yes. 500 borrowers. All the same issues with the same lender.Many seniors and minorities against a what capitalistic predatory lender or broker. I’ll place my bets that a jury, who I am sure many might be in the same situation, would side with us. In fact I would bet my life on it, that’s how confident I am.
IVirginia -But wouldn’t it benefit your cause more if you prosecuted the cases that can be documented and proven and then alert the media?
Moe – The FBI and local DA’s are so busy with these cases that they can’t handle them all. My goal is to save these peoples homes, not put people in jail. No one wins there and the best way to do that is use federal laws to fight fire with fire and contest these foreclosures with affirmative defenses.
Jeffyboy – This is my job and yes it will be more than full time.
Heather, I better understand your situation and I feel for you. You have more choices than you think……if you have taken care of your credit. It really depends on what you’d like to do. The easiest would be to refinance NOW into a 30 year fixed. Do it now before your neighborhood comps sell at $120k. Pay the prepayment penalty if you have one.
You can also contact your lender and ask about a “streamline refi” or loan MOD. Remember, banks are not in the realestate business, they do not want to foreclose on you and realize the loss.
My decision would be to “short sell” your house. List your property and work with your lender on getting the best offer you can for your property, and they will take it! Lose the 194k in debit and rent for the next few years. I GUARANTEE you can rent a larger home in your neighborhood for less than your PITI payment. check out craigslist.com in your local area. Not sure what your payments are but you should save about 3-8 grand a year by renting.
Then, in two years buy your house back for $100k. I just saved you 100k. Merry Christmas.
I could give you more specifics on what ever plan you chose, but don’t want to post all of the trade secrets… let me know if you need more info
MOe, I work in the legal field, and believe me, you have a case.
Viriginia the problem you have with Moe’s position is this, PERSPECTIVE.
“Mass numbers coming forward to jump on the bandwagon for potential free money” — That’s what you see.
“I am hell bent on fighting for American Homeowners that are having their properties taken from them and kicked out on the streets.” That’s what Moe, I, and all of the victimized homeowners see.
That was a phenomenal quote by Thomas Jefferson, Moe. Years later, and it still applies as much as it did on the day he said it. He saw the danger and it’s coming true.
Without people like you, Moe, who are doing something about this we would be in BIG TROUBLE!!!!
It’s funny, the banks screw people all the time and “we” call the business.
This Ohio man takes advantage of the system and laws on the books to give them a taste of their own medicine and does so for 11 years and we call him “greedy” and “looking for a free ride”.
You know what that is?
That’s the rich get richer and the poor get poorer mentality.
It’s okay for banks to make as much money as they can, because they have money.
It’s not okay for a poor man to make money or preserve what he has, he should just be prepared bend over and get screwed — that’s his role in life, right? Is that the theory?
I DON’T THINK SO.
By the way Virginia, my brokers charged me $11,400 and change for a Loan Origination Fee and an Application fee AND made $14,662 YSP. That’s what, about $27,000 and put me into an OPTION ARM with a 8% rate with a margine of 3.75 and I had no debt, but for a car payment and 800 FICO score at the time. I told them specifically I wanted a fixed rate loan. THey siad, No, take this – it’s better. You’ll be able to refi in two years, no problem. Think of how much money you’ll save.
They lied and lied and lied, didn’t disclose. What do you think about that? You think that’s the not the story for many a homeowner? I’ve been on the HOmeowners forum, you should take a stroll through. It’s a common story.
wow unbeleivabale says – “Moe displays a Stalin-like desire to confiscate the wealth of anyone he doesn’t like.”- I am a consumer advocate and consumers are getting the royal shaft by lenders. Millions have already and millions more.
——————————————–
You’re a consumer advocate? I seriously doubt it. I’ve worked with true consumer advocates, who help consumers when they have a verifiable case of consumer fraud, and you don’t sound anything like them. True consumer advocates have nuetral attitudes at the start, NOT some self serving “Everyone’s getting screwed by lenders, and I’m the guy who will put a stop to it” type of attitude. They know they’re there to provide help but will work within the law; you sound like you think you’re superman.
Millions of consumers took out financing without properly checking what they were getting themselves in for. Yes, there are crooks who took advantage of people, and I say let’s string them up by their privates. But, ultimately, it’s the consumers responsibility; they’re the ones signing on the dotted line. I have sympathy for those who were truly taken advantage of, but NONE for those who simply didn’t bother to check out what they were getting & are now jumping on the “I was taken advantage of” bandwagon to see if they can get free money; they make up the biggest group of consumers in trouble. Like a previous poster said, the freedom to succeed is also the freedom to fail, and those that fail due to their own actions get what they deserve. Unfortunately, in a microcosym, it’s survival of the fittest, and those who took out loans without bothering to read their documents or disclosures get hurt. It’s painful, but it’s real life. Statements like “I’m going to try to get millions of people to not make their mortgage payments” is NOT the talk of a consumer advocate; it sounds more like that of an anarchist who has a personal axe to grind, or delusions of grandeur. Consumer advocate? I doubt it…
Obviously you’re an executive for a lender or CEO or maybe just some capitalistic pig that is profiting somehow, one way or another in your ivory tower that will crumble some day.
I am not an anarchist. The market is in anarchy and it needs some help and I’m trying to do that.
People are losing their homes and dreams when there is no need for it in many cases. It’s just the result of a resetting mortgage.
Now, with that said get your a$$ off MY BLOG and don’t let the browser hit you in the butt on your way out. Bye.
Well said, again jacmac.
“It’s okay for banks to make as much money as they can, because they have money.
It’s not okay for a poor man to make money or preserve what he has, he should just be prepared bend over and get screwed — that’s his role in life, right? Is that the theory?
I DON’T THINK SO.”
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
I am surprised that Jacmac, someone in the legal profession with a credit score of 800 who appears to be a person of intelligence and who wanted a fixed-rate mortgage could be so duped into taking an option arm and believe that her mortgage broker could predict the future value of real estate!
First off, there is no money! There are debt instruments which are called federal reserve notes but are not money. All banks cannot loan depositors frn’s nor can they loan their own assetts due to federal regulations. So, where do they get the finances from? Guess what, it comes from your promissory note which is a negotiable instrument and can be cashed just like a check for the full amount of the mortgage plus 30 years worth of interest. Then as if that is not a big enough rip-off they then turnaround and say to you,”ok,we have made you a loan and now we want you to make payments for 30 years”. What most government schooled and media indoctrinated sheeple need to realize is who the real crooks are and it certainly isn’t the innocent victims of the loan sharks who pose as respectable bankers. They and their whores the lawyers are your real enemy but they have us all so divided that we the people can’t make a unified defense against them. Check out, “Billions for the Bankers-Debts for the People” and try to read a little truth once in a while instead of the lies and propaganda your normally fed through the media.
YOU HOMEOWNERS have runined my dream! I should be living in a beach house by now, or any house at least. I’ve been busting my ass for 7 years since college and not made less than 6 figures a year! I’ve worked mostly in loss mitigation trying to help people save their homes.
You uneducated, money hungry, “my brother in-law did it so I can without experience”, “I’m an investor because I can buy homes with $0 down” LOL, pipedreaming, refusing the LAWS of economics, believing the used car..em loan officers/realtors over common sense, sheeple have screwed it up for us all.
You couldn’t resisist the folklore of riches in homeownership could you!?!?!
You and your greed have created this mess! The few of us that LOVE the housing market, study and embrase the study of Economics and LOGIC, have had to watch this on the sidelines.
The banks have been providing a service that YOU have been begging for. YOU wanted to “OWN” something. You wanted to get “equity” and live a better, easier life. To make the riches that the janitor in your building has been bragging about since ‘03.
Make no mistake. It is your greed and your greed only that has allowed this to happen. Greed for money or for space or both without regard for fundamentals.
Even though it is Highly unlikely your fight the banks will be successfull, Here are the results:
The banks (your money is deposited in these banks if you have any) will raise the interest rates on all future mortagaes because of the risk of jacka$$s like you will try and not pay.
There, you screwed your grandkids. Now pay your damn mortgage (PROMISARY note) or sell your home.
Time to be a man not a mouse….
Yeah, logic cannot respond, can it? You will continue to use the “they” and “them” terms to describe why YOU are hurting financially. They and Them is your bank and your money! If you don’t like it withdraw it! If you influence others to do the same, that collective action could actually influence banks. You dum azz buying more houses will not.
Now shut your hot air traps and pay your bills or sell!
ZBoy…Thanks for our understanding…I have desperately tried to refinance thru several banks, and my appraised value just isn’t where it needs to be…While our credit is not trashed, not being able to pay the new mortgage payment has done a great job of trashing it…I am desperately trying to seek a modification with my current mortgage company…Desperately….I have substantiated everything with them…I have showed them plenty of money to pay all my bills per month…Bank statements to back that up…W-2’s from the same employer for the last 10 years ( my husband has been in the same field for 15), and all the W-2’s showing a steady income…I would consider doing a short sale, but I just don’t have the ability to pay the adjusted payment to buy me time until it sells…I am caught between a rock and a hard place…I call the mortgage company every day just to get an update…I will say those are the toughest phone calls I make…As soon as someone answers the phone, I get a knot in my stomach…It is very hard to have your fate in someone elses hands, very very hard…My sleepless nights are endless, and the tears I have cried over this house are countless…
Alan – To answer your question, I did get a pretty good interest rate drop by doing the refinance…When I initially bought the home, I did the stated program (Almost 1/2 of my income at the time was under the table), and I remember the interest being quite high (I think I went down 2-3% by refinancing), so I am not sure that I would have a lemon mortgage. The only cash we received was $1,200 that was paid directly to the state (for a state tax debt that came up on title, not credit), and in the end, it wound up not being ours, so we were refunded the money.
Ladies and Gentlemen: I have worked for banks, brokers and had my own shop for many years. What is funny, none of you get what is going on.
You can place the blame on whom ever you wish. The reality is that all of you that screwed your clients, your job is done! I interviewed many of you through out the years and did not hire you because of your ethical answers to many questions. It is too bad that our industry has gone to this, but the simple matter is, all of you “Order takers” need to go!!! You know who you are and are probably the idiots that will respond to this notice.
The flight to quality mortgages is a movement that is here to stay. All of you ex-car salesmen (that sucked to begin with) have no place in our business. PLEASE LEAVE AND DON’T COME BACK!!!
By the way: Moe is an idiot!!! Capitalist pig??? Let me remember; we are Americans…hmmm. Here’s an idea: let’s talk about personal responsibility? Who’s fault is it if your mortgage is in default?
MOE: MOVE TO CANADA AND VOTE FOR HILLARY!!!!!!!!!
“I think it’s quite amusing that a homeowner from Cuyahoga County, Ohio gave this powerful, 2,300 lawyer and 30 office law firm a 11 year fight.”
Um, read the WSJ article sections you quoted. Bank of America didn’t bring in Jones Day until 2000. That’s seven (7) years dude. When hiring a large law firm, all the attorneys there don’t work on your case.
Geez you must be a backward red stater.
IndustryProfessional (professional??? yeah right): “I am surprised that Jacmac, someone in the legal profession with a credit score of 800 who appears to be a person of intelligence and who wanted a fixed-rate mortgage could be so duped into taking an option arm and believe that her mortgage broker could predict the future value of real estate”
Okay, yous got me, Izzzz sooooo stupid!!! Izzzz soooo dummmmb!!!
I shulda known I waz being fooled!!! Izzz shulda known it!!!!!
I shulda sat there and read all da paperz they put in front of me, even if I didn’t undastand not a lick of it!!! I shulda kept my eyez fixed ‘pon all them there papers even if da closing took ten hours, but I didn’t and now I’m gonna pay!!! I wazz sooooooo dumbbbb — you all have found me out!!!!!
I knew deep down in my belly that somethin’ waz wrong, ’cause they wanted to give lil ‘ol me alllll that money, but the menz were smiling and talkin’ and I got soooo confuzed.
And then theyz handed me that shiny pen, and you know, I always did like shiny things. Next thing I know, I waz signing and signing and signing. And then before I knew it, they all were laughing and shaking my handz like I waz a real somebody, and I was excited and scared, all at da same time!!!!
But I knoez I done wrong! I knoez it. And now I’m gonna payz by living out on the street with my chillen liken you probably wants me too, just az I deserves.
This is how the “professional” self-serving, egotistical, know-it-all broker sees the average homeowner who faces foreclosure now.
Heather, you have another choice if you are behind and want to salvage your credit to some degree. A deed-in-lieu of foreclosure – you simply sign your property and mortgage back to your lender and move out.
You sound like a good person and I’d like to help you make the best decision. If you would like me to help with more specifics you can email me at zachsdca@gmail.com
I have a question, can anybody tell me what happens when you can’t pay the 2nd mortgage? Can the 2nd mortgage company take the house? Who pays the real estate taxes that are due from 2006 tax year?
I have owned the house since 1994 and was never late on a payment till July 2007. I did have a stellar FICO score until the effects of unemployed, illness and divorce wiped out all my savings.
My son lives with me and I’m worried where we will go if I loose the house. I can pay part of the 1st mortgage but not able to pay the second mortgage with the meager monthly income I receive.
Bob Jones,
The risk of a mortgage company having second lien position is the high possibility of the note not being satisfied by the borrower. That’s one reason the rates are usually higher and the terms are shorter than the first mortgage. When foreclosure is initiated, taxes are always paid first. Taxes are not subject to position. What’s left is then given to the first mortgage and if anything is left that’s, what the second mortgage will receive. There is a great chance the second lien or mortgage gets nothing. If this process happens, the mortgage company can’t come after you if you loose your house, but look out for them placing a judgement on you. Foreclosure can get you evicted from your home but the time frame varies from state to state. States that operate with Deeds move very swiftly.
Second mortgages usually by my observation are reluctant on starting foreclosure prcedures because they still have a chance at not getting anything. See if your second mortgage can re-structure your loan and defer your delinquent payments to the back of the loan.
Your late 2006 taxes will be paid by your first mortgage and then they will adjust your monthly note to get their money back. You don’t want to do that because you are paying daily interest on taxes included in your loan. If you send them that money, your note will re-adjust back.
Chris,
Thank you for the answer, it helped since mortgage law is not my interest.
What happens if the 2nd mortgage company gets a judgment against me? I’m not clear on what a judgment is. Obviously I would have paid the second if I could afford it, if they get a judgment against me I still can’t afford to pay,,,,,,,,,, so what happens to the judgement ,,,,,,,, is that overhanging my head till I die ?
Thanks for your response, it is appreciated.
Its another form of lawsuit where it doesn’t matter if you are present or not at the court rendering a judgement or decision on a particular matter against you. You’ll will be served by sheriff or court representative. It’s up to you if you show up. Not showing up won’t delay the process. But way before it gets to that you have opportunity to correct your problem. Negoiate something with them. They don’t want bad debt on the books.
Remember, lenders are in the business of loaning money for a profit, not owning property. They want their money back from you, not from a sheriff sale. Its only after you refuse to cooperate with them and shut communication off, do they seek judgement on you. Document each conversation for your records. Keep in mind that judgements sometimes accrue interest. Judgements are non transferable, which means if you have a judgement on you then you can’t perform anymore real estate transactions without that judgement being satisfied first. It affects your credit and other creditors may deny you a credit because of it.
Judgements don’t go away. Bankruptcy doesn’t remove them either. If you never pay it, it stays with you until the end. Because it’s a judgement that is also attached to your house, it’s on your title as another form of a lien. If you sell the house or if you die, whoever inherits the home gets the judgement along with it. Not on them personally, but the judgement follows the house.
The lender will entertain you. Explain to them your situation but have a your own solution ready. They will help you but the terms may not work for you. Its worth their while.
I am about to lose my home I think, I have a 1st and a 2nd I became dissabled in 2006 and am now broke. If I could keep my first current,
is there a chance the second might just become a loose or write off
for the second . or would they just force forclosure. I have the house for
sale but california is really bad right now my first is 240k my second is
215k the house will not sell for 455k. any chance if I kept the first current the second leain holder might just take the write off, in stead of
trying to collect money that is not there.
any help would be appreciated
Chris, Thanks for your replies. You got me started in the right direction and I have been researching it further. Thanks !
Butch,
Unfortunately, no, the second won’t take a loss and go away unless you take a full loss, losing your house. If you are selling your house, try and negoiate a short sale with the lender. That’s them agreeing to take less rather than nothing at all in an effort to sell the house. The thing is, you can’t make a dime off the deal. Like I told Bob Jones, they don’t really want to foreclose. It costs the lender more to foreclose and put you out than just work something out.
The lender is not in the business of selling real estate. Its going to cost them premium $ to hire someone once you’re put out to fix the house to a marketable state, then hire a real estate company to sell the house. While all of this is going on, they have to keep the bad debt on their books pay someone to harass you for payment until they can write it off as a loss to their insurance company. All of this is bad for the lender because it cost them in everyway.
Chris
thanks for the help I will get in touch with the bank tomarrow
Here’s some insight to the mortgage broker’s mind. Now think about the toxic loan you’re in. You can thanks some of these guys and the programs that they offered (conned) you into.
http://implode-explode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2467&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=f9b1ba3efba0e11fff9d35d0640a7517
(copy and paste)
That az guy is a capitalistic pig.
I did a fair amount of 80/20 No Ratio’s, but they were good loans: bartenders who cheated on their taxes & who bought very modest houses, loans in the wife’s name where the husband (with lousy credit) had plenty of additional income. Those loans will perform no worse (and no better) than a full-doc 100LTV My Community Mortgage. The problem with 100% reduced doc loans was that for every LO (like me) who had to satisfy themselves that the borrower could handle the payments, there were 9 or 10 who could’ve cared less. Also, the immediate cause of the Alt A crash in mid-summer was the fact that at the very tail end, occupancy fraud suddenly became rampant. 100% SISA’s lent themselves too well to “straw buyers” who would close the same day on 6 different “owner-occupied” properties. There was a massive spike in that crap in about May 2007. That’s when the many undercapitalized wholesalers said “Holy Sh!t! All these loans we just funded are total garbage” They couldn’t get them off their lines & they were instantly insolvent. Many people in business simply aren’t paranoid enough. Their minds can’t even imagine the worst-case scenario.
Moe,
I’m tired of that stupid label, “capitalistic pig”. Capitalist means private owner of means of production, also called capital. The author of the thread has nothing to do with being “capitalist”, he didn’t invest in acquiring means of production and so he is not a capitalist. He may be a pig, but he ain’t a capitalist one. He is a middleman, he doesn’t represent either party and he has no skin in the transaction.
whatever alan, damn slimy pig, how’s that
sure Defense -Ohio Homeowner Fights Foreclosure and Lives Payment Free for 11 Years | Loan Modification & Loan Workout News thanks for this post! Robert
The banks/mortgage companies definitely need to accept responsibility for predatory lending practices. I am experiencing foreclosure right now. I was sold 2 ARM’s, consequetively, without full explanation, went through a divorce as well as a job loss. Prior to buying my home, I had 15 years of solid work history and good credit having had a previous mortgage with no lates or missed payments. My credit score was in the mid 700’s but had a high DTI. Interestingly enough, early in the foreclosure process I was desperately looking for a job. All of my work history was in a field where starting pay was minimal. So, I desperately applied for anything. Guess where I was hired? I was hired to be a loan officer for a mortgage broker…with absolutely no experience, no license. I took the position because of the promises(lies) made to me by the manager (great leads, unlimited income, flexible schedule). I’m a single parent. There were 10 loan officers including the manager, there when I started. Less than half had their license. I worked there for 4 months and got my license before most of the others. The training was not bad the first week, but after that if I had questions, I just had to ask whomever was around. There were 2 experienced loan officers that were very helpful and I respected them. From most cubicles you could hear how others interacted with their customers. They also had alot of pamphlets which were available to give to customers to explain ARM’s and other types of programs. I went to great lengths to explain the programs I was selling. But what I found was this. There was one L.O. who was favored. This was the consensus among the entire staff. She never answered her calls, especially from customers who had already closed on loans, but had questions later. EVERY LOAN SHE CLOSED WAS AN ARM! She had worked ther for 1 year when I started and had NEVER done an FHA. SHE WAS GIVEN MORE LEADS THAN ANYONE ELSE AND THEY WERE ALMOST ALL JUMBO LOANS, while the rest of us, were given leads with values of $100-$200k, tops. She had never done a HELOC! I remember asking her, early on, how to explain negative amortization to a customer. Her answer…change the subject! I read as much as I could and researched and asked questions. I honestly felt that I could be very good at this job, but I wanted to do it ethically and really help people. This was the summer of ‘06. Why were all of the leads given to the least ethical LO? She was unprofessional and dishonest. I was never given business cards as promised. I was given poor leads and few at that. I was let go after 4 months for not closing enough loans. During this time, I called my mortgage company and tried to work something out and spoke with 3 different people. I was yelled at, mocked and condescended to. They refused to work with me. I am currently working (not in the mortgage industry), and making more money than when I was granted the first loan, and they refuse still to work with me. I have even asked to rent. Keep in mind, this house was on the market for a year and a half when I bought it in the fall of ‘03. It sits on a very busy route. How can the bank lose by working with me? I realize there will always be those who are just trying to abuse the system, get something for nothing. But there are also plenty of people who would love to get back on track, and would be proud to pay a mortgage again. Yes, I said proud. Foreclosure is humiliating. Sometimes life just happens. I would love to begin paying my mortgage again and keep my home. But you have to admit that the banks and the brokers should take responsibility for the mistakes that have been made. The brokerage I worked for was not unusual. I have a friend in the real estate business and he said that is “typical”. Those of you who think that victims of foreclosure are all scumbags are probably the same people justifying predatory lending. Predatory lending is commonplace. You don’t need to look for it, just take off your rose colored glasses. I am not a financial expert by any means but have seen both sides of the fence. And I firmly believe that the financial institutions can and should do more to resolve the problems they created.