First Countrywide sold you a toxic loan that caused you to lose your home to foreclosure and devastate you financially and emotionally. Now, they are profiting from your misery by touring your foreclosed home with would be Donald Trumps, AKA foreclosure investors, in the new sick “for profit” service known as “foreclosure bus tours”.
First they had “Flip This House” and now the have “Parade of Foreclosures”.
This article came out in the Star Tribune the other day:
Anecdotal reports from real estate agents indicate 150 or more houses are in some stage of foreclosure in the Duluth area, which is why Mike Locker and Gloria Allan of Countrywide Financial, a nationwide mortgage lender, decided to experiment with a “Parade of Foreclosures” tour in February and March.
The first 15 people to sign up for each of the three, two-hour tours — set for this Sunday, March 9 and March 30 — will be taken to see five or six properties. A different agent will conduct each tour. The tour-goers must be qualified as buyers through Countrywide or, if they’re qualified through another lender, they can take the tour for $25. Houses on the tour won’t necessarily be owned by Countrywide.
Let me get this straight. These morons can’t make money any other way, but to make people “pre-qualify” with Countrywide or charge wanna be Carlton Sheets, 25 bucks a pop if they have another lender?
The Countrywide loan officer goes on to explain why they do these tours:
“A lot of buyers are afraid to buy a foreclosed property because there’s damage to them,” Locker said.
Buyers are afraid of a foreclosed house and a little cosmetic damage. What?
Then we have the Realtors getting in on the foreclosure bus tour action.
Tod Venberg, president of the Duluth Area Association of Realtors and owner of WHY USA Northland Realty, will lead the second tour. He said that some foreclosed homes “are really nice, but I’ve seen some that the people were really mad and they trashed the place out.”
Foreclosures can be good buys, but not all are being sold at bargain-basement prices. “Foreclosures have gotten such a stigma now that people expect them to be a good deal,” said Michelle Lyons, owner of Port Cities Realty, which has about 90 foreclosures that either are on the market or soon will be. Agents in her company are involved with the first foreclosure tour.
Unfrickenbelievable! These idiots were probably the same people who sold these crappy loans and sold overpriced homes. Now, they are profiting from the toxic spill they helped create by charging people to tour the foreclosure mess.
Give me a break.
I know I am going to get the comments. “Moe, they are necessary!” ‘We need a market correction”, ”Moe, you just hate Countrywide!” yada, yada, yada………….
All I say is, “Hop on the merry go round at that the Countrywide circus.”
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You are unbelievable. Somebody has to buy these houses you moron. They have to sell to people that can pay for them.
Countrywide has an obligation to sell the houses and its the profession of a realtor to sell them.
You pretend that the people who borrowed Countrywides money are all victims. None of them lied to get their loans. They all exercised common sense when evaluating if they could afford the houses they bought.
At the end of the day these former homeowers are renting homes at greatly reduced amounts than their former mortgage payments.
Do you not have any compassion for the people who lost their life savings trusting that the borrowers would actually pay the money back that they borrowed? Its obvious that you don’t.
countrywide was bad news then and bad news now,they are mortgage broker last place
Nice Mike!
Moe is one sided, but its just the nature of balance don’t be too hard on him.
If God was to tell us the stats, we would see that there is a significant % of people that were not so able to do the math and did believe what the machinery sold them…
but not to this extreme… the other % as you say knew exactly what they were doing and thuoght to max out then cash-out like all their friends.
Wall Street let it get out of control, but history repeats so theres no new tales to tell really.
In the future, we will match median income ratios to home prices and let that be the great equalizer.
by the way, gl @ CW.
Dear Moe-
What you are failing to understand is that these so called “poor homeowners”, weren’t all necessarily taken advantage of. I know this sounds really wierd, but the borrowers in most cases reviewed the financial conditions of the loan. Wow, what an amazing concept. Here are just a few places that things went wrong:
1. Real Estate professionals counted on the secondary market and lending guidelines to stay the same for many years to come. And before anyone could replace the attractive ARM loans with 30 year conventionals the rug was taken out from under them.
2. Homeowners were using there homes like piggybanks. If there was something that they needed to purchase or if they were running into too much debt, all they had to do was refinance. Little did these homeowners know that the well dried up.
3. Greed, and homeowners letting it go. There is no reason why a borrower should agree to let some broker or lender receive the max. 5% in fees. I mean come on! But homeowners didn’t shop around, and were just to consumed by there own greed to purchase more things or to vacation to another place that they in turn allowed brokers and lenders to cash in on the max.
4. Attorneys are now wanting to cash into this whole debacle. Anytime that something like this happens you get some attorneys that again are riding the “greed” bus and want to cash in on these cases. It’s the whole woe is me thing happening. What people need to be aware of is that when there is a class action lawsuit who receives most of the awarded settlement???? The homeowner that didn’t have the brains to read the paperwork?? The state that needs to supplement the loss in property tax collection??? NOPE…… Mr/Mrs. attorney, that prays on the hearts of these so called “victims”. Nothing more than glamourtized “ambulance chasers.”
But, then again I could be wrong about the whole thing. I actually read what I signed.
wise guys eh!
Mr. White,
These people used common sense based on lender and broker propogated false advertising that these loans would help them buy the American Dream.
These loans are “lemon loans” and should have never been sold. They should be recalled like they recall bad beef.
Someone eats bad beef, we don’t say, “let him die and get sick. He knew the risks if he ate the beef he “may” get sick and die.”
NO! We immediately promote a world wide press release, all the beef is taken off the shelves and the beef company is out of business because Johhny ate a bad burger at Wendy’s.
Yet, millions were sold what essentially is “bad beef” aka BAD LOANS, people are losing their homes, credit and sanity, people are committing suicide, murders, crime over foreclosure and yes, BAD LOANS!
And we have the homeowner critics saying, “They knew what they were doing. They signed the papers.” “They took a hit off the loan pipe.”
My stance will always be, “don’t jail the users”, “jail the DEALENDERS”.
Unfortunately we have a society ran by dealers aka lenders, who seem to want to control the way people think by using the media and their little press releases. Fortunately for me and the people who care to hear the truth, my blog and the first ammendment, I can speak the truth and expose how hideous this all is.
Lenders need to take their money and HIRE the PROPER staff to handle ALL their BAD LOANS and FORECLOSURES, not do foreclosure bus tours or lame commercials about no cost refis!
While these bus tours do seem to be in bad taste, I still think they are a good idea. The lenders need to sell the houses to stay solvent. They can’t do many refinances, nor new loans if they are bankrupt. Many lenders have been sitting on houses with the mistaken belief that the value will come back up, meanwhile they rot. And if they get these houses sold to people who are actually going to live in them and maintain them, then neighbourhoods can be saved.
… These homes are a good deal to the right person– regardless if purchased for a rental or a primary residence. Countrywide is smart to try and salvage their debt load, especially in areas like CA or FL where they took a bath on Option Arms and Interest-Only loans.
Countrywide made a few poor moves, but they are still a strong company and a good lender. People have a ton of ‘anger’ towards CHL for some reason, but look at EVERY other lender– they are going through many of the same hurdles, but have a more diversified asset allocation. If Wells Fargo and Citi didn’t have other avenues to generate income, they would be in the same boat. Countrywide’s only major business flaw is not having it’s banking operations running a larger share of their busines.
Looking at all the other carnage in the mortgage world, CHL should be looked as a pioneer– able to stand on it’s feet while almost every other mortgage-only bank went belly-up.
If that bus tour comes to Denver I would gladly jump on board…
Gentlemen,
I believe a balanced argument is in order. While I would concede to the idea that many (prior) homeowners were victims of their own ignorance, the idea that Countrywide (one of the largest home lenders and purveyor of ‘innovative’ loan products and suffering from mountaneous losses themselves) is sponsoring the foreclosure bus tour seems a bit too parasitic in nature for my taste buds.
Lenders like Countrywide colluded with Wall Street to create the financial alchemy/disaster that has exposed us all (even current borrowers) to severe systemic risk thru a securitization process that has gone awry. WORSE THAN ALL OF THIS, it seems there is growing concern about loans originated in 2006 and 2007 defaulting BEFORE resetting to a higher rate. This tells me that lenders are continuing to look the other way, in some fools effort to keep production up.
While the borrowers played along with the lending shenanigans of the past 5 years or so, lenders should’ve known better– and have a fudiciary obligation to their investors to maintain underwriting standards that provide sound investments (think foreigners who fund our deficits and the pension funds of our municipalities). This was CLEARLY not the case and I’m willing to bet that many underwriters that have been in the business more than a decade knew it.
Do I blame Countrywide for its foreclosure bus tour? No! That’s a capitalist market – caveat emptor. But I am deeply turned off to the push by MBA and many banking lobbies in this country who lobby against regulation, but in the same breath seek govt intervention in the form of rate reductions, MLEC funds, teaser freezer programs, to insulate them from faulty decision making and losses from poor practices. These people could be viewed as “situational capitalists”, and know nothing about the free market and how it works.
KD
Hey Moe,
My Wife is pregnant! I feel deceived, she said we can have all the fun we want, but at No time did she tell me she can get pregnant. I feel I should be able to walk out on her and not be responsible What say U?
Childish huh.
Krakemkid – Well, if you are in the State of Califonia, I say, “YOUR SCREWED!”
But, what you are speaking of is going to happen to lenders. They thought they were doing the screwing, and now if millions walk from their homes, they will be the screw-eez. Just a simple twist of fate.
Childish? Nah! Just the what you get in a world where everyones screwing each other.
Moe,
I thought the lenders wanted your home? They designed these loans to fail to get those houses didn’t they? Changing your tune?
HA HA! FUCK COUNTRYWIDE AND THE OTHER 227 BANKS THAT HAVE GONE OUT OF BUSINESS SINCE OCT. 2006.
THEY ARE ONLY GETTING WHAT THEY DESERVE!
WHEN YOU CON PEOPLE INTO BUYING OVERPRICED HOMES BECAUSE YOU ARE A GREEDY JEW MONEY LOVER, THIS KIND OF THING TENDS TO HAPPEN. PERHAPS IF THE “LOAN LANGUAGE” WASN’T SO CONVOLUTED AND DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE HOMEOWNER TO UNDERSTAND, YOU GREEDY MOTHERFUCKERS WOULDN’T HAVE SUCH ISSUES….
ONE WORD SUMS IT ALL UP FOR ME…. KARMA
THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN MONEY…
Well Said,
but I have a problem with not taking responsibility for your actions. I do live in CA and I am currently struggleing to making ends meet.
I owe more then what my house is worth and to complicate things I laid off at the end of 07 and started working in 01-08. But I am doing everything possible to keep my house and pay my bills. And yes its easier walking away but I am not willing to do that.
I guess I beleive in being responsible.
Hillgrove, Medication time!!!
Al,
No, no! I still have that “theory”. But I can’t prove it. I didn’t think they wanted every home. Just the poor subrimers. Now the coveted “prime” borrowers may walk. Something they didn’t bet on.
Believe me, I still think that this is a conspiracy to keep the middle class and lower class man down and to kick then when they are down. While the rich get richer and gobble up all the real estate.
Unfortunately, conspiracy theories based on facts do not go well in our society.
I understand how walking away may not be the answer for everyone, but it’s not the end of the world. The banks and credit companies would like you to believe that you are totally screwed if you do so, but this is not the case. The fannie mae and freddie mac guideline on foreclosure is 2 years. That means that after 2 years, you could buy a home again.
Why is the united states the only county in the world with credit scores?
I let a house I owned go into foreclosure and I destroyed the place before I left. Even took the copper pipes and a fireplace right out of the wall. The lenders came after me but I filed for chapter 7. Not only did I live for free for a year, but I got out of all liability as well. And I feel great about it! Fuck them! The rich have gotten richer off the broken backs of the poor and middle class for far too long! I am proud of the fact that I personally cost countrywide at least 200k on just the house alone. Not to mention all the legal costs the incurred!
Wake up people! Think for yourself and question authority! If we would all just stand up for ourselves, life would be much better all around!
What you fail to realize is that we All end up paying for it!!!! And thats the truth.
But on that same note I have’nt see a poor man give me a Job, how about You..
Boo hoo….. you want some cheese with your wine?
Supporting a corrupt system because “it’s all we have” is a disgrace….
All I know is that the whole world is designed to keep people afraid and in debt. Seriously… why do you go to work everyday? Because you are afraid you won’t have money to pay your mortgage, buy your hookers, or pay for your pointless BMW, or even buying food for that matter…. You are not free! You are a slave to the almighty dollar. I just put my foot down, that’s all. So keep drinking beer and watching tv morons, your government is in control!
I will continue on as a free man!
Mr. Hillgrove,
It’s evident you have some knowlege of the system, and frankly, you are correct about the govt wanting people to be afraid and in debt, but I’m thinking your delivery is a bit off the mark.
Firstly, I’m not sure I’d go boasting about how I trashed a home and lifted the copper pipes off of it, AFTER I left Countrywide holding the (debt) bag. For what it’s worth, the lenders DID act woefully irresponsible and let the little people believe they were getting in on something good (a home– promoted as the American Dream), but I’m not sure that criminal behavior is the answer either.
To be certain, banks had their interests in mind- NOT the homeowners, when they penned these ruinous loan products, but that does not excuse the borrower. Like the house flippers who would purchase homes site unseen, many borrowers accepted the terms of these loans without giving thought to the long term consequences / obligations of these commitments. In summary, banks are greedy, and they deserve to bear risk, but homeowners are equally to blame for not acting more judiciously with respect to their OWN financial responsibility.
Whether you’re buying a big home, hookers, a pointless BMW, is irrelevant. The truth is, those who do, are doing so willfully. Freedom is a relative term, but as we are seeing today, freedom to make financial choices can prove difficult and even dangerous in the hands of people who do not understand how to manage their finances.
Where we agree completely is that govt intervention on these issues is needless and it fosters a socialist economic environment that drowns out the free market ideologies that made America great and our markets the envy of the world. Where we also likely agree is that the Federal Reserve is a group of elitist (pig) bankers that has usurped the power and funds from the middle class to feed the affluent.
Recommended Reading: “Creature from Jekyll Island”
KD
Moe, You fail to recongize that most borrowers arent stupid. They shop very well for their loans. They have to sign countless documents (some in front of a notary) stating that the terms of their loans.
Its sad that people can’t take responsibility for their actions. Buying a house is a major purchase. Most people don’t treat it like buying a TV. Federal law allows borrowers 3 recission days to cancel a refinance transaction for any reason. Thats a privilege they have so that they don’t have to accept loans that are not what they expected or if they simply changed their minds.
Borrowers need to accept responsibility for their mistakes just as much as the investors have to lose the money they gave the borrowers for not doing their research adequately.
When you sign a Contract you better damn well know what you are siging. I learned that in grade school.
I’d like to see the statistics backing the comments made more often by the Mortgage Brokers and Lender sympathetics on this site, that is that the buyers new what they were doing and read all the documents.
Where are you guys getting your information from?
Three cheers to Kevin for two very well written, insightful posts and Moe, for this comment:
“this is a conspiracy to keep the middle class and lower class man down and to kick then when they are down. While the rich get richer and gobble up all the real estate.”
Stick a fork in it, I’m done.
I’d like to see the statistics backing the comments made more often by the Mortgage Brokers and Lender sympathetics on this site, that is that the buyers new what they were doing and read all the documents.
Where are you guys getting your information from?
Three cheers to Kevin for two very well written, insightful posts and Moe, for this comment:
“this is a conspiracy to keep the middle class and lower class man down and to kick then when they are down. While the rich get richer and gobble up all the real estate.”
Stick a fork in it, ’cause I’m done.
Well i have to say I somewhat agree with Moe. I mean Countrywide did play a big part in this mess along with all the other big lenders, I’m a loan processor and have been in this business since 1986. I also believe these lenders do have to do something to try to get these homes off their books, everyone is hurt all around. seems like the ones who aren’t hurt and are off scottfree are the Mozilo’s and Perry’s and Prince’s who walked off with millions and millions of stock sold, severance packages, etc. Don’t know how all this mess will end up, in all my years i’ve never seen anything like this. My income is a 1/3 of what it was 2 years ago, I am cashed out of my retirement, annuities and savings and now have had to consult a bankruptcy lawyer because i’m tapped out and have been living in the red each month for about 2 years trying to hang on. Not all borrowers walking or filing bankruptcy are scum, think of all the hardworking processors, underwriters, funders, not to mention all the other layoffs in construction, auto, etc that are also happening. It is a sad situation for alot of people who thought they would stay in their house forever, etc. ok, stick the fork in my now, i’m done!
Ten yrs. ago, I purchased my 2nd house through Countrywide, because they were the “new home” lender and this was my 2nd new home. After 10 yrs. of on time payments, no lates and no bounced payments, we decided to re-finance. Well, Countrywide sent us to their “lesser” known affiliate (which they own), which was called Freedom Financial. Not knowing we were being sent to the slaughter house, we completed our refinance. From the date of closure on this refi, we received a phone call (literally harassment) each and every month, before our payment was even due, reminding us that our payment was coming due (this was after we’d already received the monthly statement)…WAS THIS NECESSARY???? We had always been SOLID customers and bill payers – never anything late and we’re being harassed on a monthly basis for our house payment….this was infuriating!!!! As soon as was feasible, we again refinanced, just to RID OURSELVES OF FREEDOM FINANCE AND THEIR AFFILIATE COUNTRYWIDE! We were never so glad to be rid of such bad “company policy” in our lives….NEVER, EVER AGAIN WOULD WE SUBJECT OURSELVES TO SUCH HYPROCRISY!
NOW, one of my children is with Countrywide and got caught in Countrywide’s “Catch 22″ scheme! Their house payment went from $3,000 per mo. to $5,000 per mo. They’ve never been late and are making these payments in order to keep their home. They live in the San Diego area of Calif. Oh yes, my son-in-law is also in the military and THIS IS THE WAY COUNTRYWIDE TREATS OUR MILITARY PERSONNEL! They’ve been told that due to the “readjustment of their loan” they will need to make an additional $570 per month in order to KEEP THEIR HOME – Countrywide won’t even do a refinance for them and hung them out to dry – they also have small children and both of them have jobs – military and otherwise! AM I MAD, YOU BET I AM!!! THE PRESIDENT OF COUNTRYWIDE SHOULD BE HUNG FROM THE HIGHEST TREE BY HIS NAUGLES (balls) until he makes things right for all those many families who placed their life savings and trust in his company. You bet some people are thinking suicide and anything else that will relieve them of the nightmare Countrywide has created for these families!
fuck you mike white your full of shit! you donbt know shit! what it feel to be fooled by these crooks criminals because of that YSP and lax of lending that’s why this thing happens. you burn in (wo, hold on here now, simmer down – edited by Moe)
I think the conversation has turned at finger bashing rather than how about the concept. I frankly think this is a brilliant idea to help expose and move foreclosed homes out of our communities. Have you all sat and thought about what these homes will do to your values of the neighborhoods by sitting around? If you are in this industry, ask yourself what would you do in todays market. Sit and lay by your bowl and hope for the best? I congratulate Mike & Gloria for trying something new in their market. Keep in mind, it never once stated that this was a Countrywide sponsored event and they are not focusing on any specific property type. This tour could help build realtor, client relationships and save your neighborhood.
And I can only assume that there are expenses involved with shuttle rental, time etc. so I do feel it to be fair that if the rider’s of the tour were prequalified with CW, they can hop on board at no charge and if they are prequalified from Wells Fargo, they should be charged as this event is not hosted by Wells Fargo. If this was my tour, I would require all borrowers to be prequalified. Once again, awesome idea and awesome potential for saving values in neighborhoods.
And by the way Pattie Ann, the jump in mortgage payments from $3,000 to $5,000, my guess is your child was in a pay option or interest only product just so they could afford to buy a house. Where is the borrowers responsibility in this topic? Could not refinance? Why? Any mortgage lates, job change, guideline changes, could not qualify with stated income anymore? There is waaaay more to your story but I understand your frustration as you want to put the blame elsewhere rather than looking in your own backyard. That is the problem with this entire market right now! EVERYBODY is to blame other than yourself…absolutely no borrower responsibility at all!!!
JacMac:
WHEN YOU CON PEOPLE INTO BUYING OVERPRICED HOMES BECAUSE YOU ARE A GREEDY JEW MONEY LOVER, THIS KIND OF THING TENDS TO HAPPEN.
I am surprised neither you nor Moe said anything about this unconsionable racist-religious tirade from Mr. Hillgrove. I see you reading racism into other posters comments, such as Al, and railing about it, but you let this one slide? You should be consistent, JacMac…..
Hans:
Your command of the English language astounds me! Maybe you should rant in your own language! Then Moe wouldn’t have to censor you and your inane posts…..
Listen, I have been in this industry fresh outta high school 11 years ago, in ‘96 things weren’t the best, but as a processor I has a brandy new car and living well for a teenager, over the years this industry has helped me obtain 2 beautiful homes, countless designer pocket books, clothing, vacations, cars, well you get the point. Now, in ‘07 the doors closed at my wholesale job, then onto our “beloved” CW, that lasted for all of 5 months before getting the old shaft (my ASM never saw it coming). Now I had my car repo’d, I’m going Chapter 7 and I am barely making ends meet. However, I am to hate the Angelo Mozzilo’s of this world, NO why should I, he didn’t didn’t tell me to go out and buy all the useless crap I have sitting in my house that is not paying my bills, I am a big girl, I knew what I was getting myself into. This industry is the same story different decade, yes this may be the worst things have ever been, but just as it has in the past it will get better, I KNOW! This time around borrowers will be a little wiser to the “bait and switch” mortgage brokers, as well as the lenders will be a little wiser as to the actual integrity of the borrower. You are all valid in your points and I am glad that at 30 I am learning these regrettable life lessons, I know many people losing homes, cars, and jobs, we are all hurting in these unfortunate times. When the homes aren’t selling the landscapers aren’t mowing, the roofers aren’t roofing (well, I’m sure you get the point).
“Parade of Foreclosures” in my opinion I find it to be repugnant, I do however understand that this is an opportunity for “worthy” borrowers to purchase a home, one in which the previous years they may have well overpaid for. Seriously speaking, many homeowners can pay for the mortgages, the easier answer is just to walk away from their responsibilities, banks DO NOT want homes back and are willing to do almost anything as long as you are making some effort to pay your mortgage, take my car, take my credit cards, I remember one thing, “thoughts become things” and I will not lose my home.
Godspeed..
Mrs. C
ps~ Patieann your family is in my prayers, I too have small children and as well I am married to a gov. employee, I know things will get better. Positivity breeds positivity!!
Without some creativity, what would happen to all of those foreclosed properties? I read the full article via the Star & Tribune and it states that the properties are not specifically CW owned homes and quite frankly, not sure how Moe can be so pissed off about this as I view two people trying to help in their frozen land of Minnesota. Seems to me that Moe is pissed off because he didn’t implement this sort of an idea.
Virginia, contrary to what you may think, I don’t read EVERY THREAD. and I usually only respond to people who sound half way intelligent.
JacMac:
I understand and thank you for commenting. What that poster said was one of the most vile, bigoted statements I have seen on this site and he deserved comdemnation for his comments…I wonder if he wears a hood to hide his ugliness…..
With all due respect some of the comments in this blog are obviously written by very ignorant and hateful people. Thats sad to witness.
I stand by my points….Borrowers had to sign numerous disclosures both at time of application and during settlement. Many of these disclosures were signed in the presense of a notary if not an attorney.
How convienent it is to say your lender dupped you. Did your lender/broker also blindfold you for hours while you reviewed your mortgage application and also during your mortgage settlement? Did they get and keep you tied up during your 3 day recission periods?
I am not excusing the actions by predatory lenders. Fortunately most of them have also been evicted from their offices and jobs. Nothing brings me more joy than knowing this to be true.
However, I find it just a bit to simplistic for everyone to simply blame the broker/lender. Its time for those to conclude that they made very poor decisions and have had to accept responsiblity of their mistakes. Next time…perhaps they wont take buying a home or refinancing thier mortgage so cavilierly.
The market must correct itself now and that means that these homes must sell. The market is as soft as it has been in decades and extreme measures must be made to sell them. The good news is that values are dropping and those of you who made mistakes and bought homes you couldnt afford may be able to buy them again 20-40% cheaper. While I will continue to pay the contract i committed to.
People need to learn how to deal with lenders. When you are underwater on your house..i.e. bought home for 500K and worth 400K. …let the lender know the TRUE value of your home and let them know you will be sending in the keys unless they reduce the principal.
Unfortunately “just like a short sale” the lenders will not listen to anybody until they are delinquent on mortgage payment usually at the 1 x 90 stage. “thats one 90 day late for you novices.”
I hope the cosumer starts playing hardball with these slimy lenders. Don’t tell me about the consumer being irresponsible and need to pay blah blah blah…the BANKS RAN A PONZI SCHEME PERIOD. IF YOU BOUGHT YOUR HOME WHY WOULD IT EVER GO DOWN LIKE THIS? IT WOULDN”. HOUSING GOES DOWN SIGNIFICANLTY WHEN ECONOMIES, CERTAIN INDUSTRIES SUCH AS AUTO HAVE MAJOR DOWNTURNS. THE US HOUSING MARKET IS GOING DOWN DUE TO A PONZI SCHEME.
BOTTOM LINE…PEOPLE NEED TO TREAT A HOUSE UNDERWATER LIKE A BUSINESS DECISION AND WALK PERIOD. ISN”T THAT WHAT BANKS AND LARGE CORPS DUE?
Am running 30 days late each month on my fixed rate mortgage since November. In January my lender sent one very nasty aggressive guy to collect the late payment. He tried a lot of outright intimidation tactics but I rebuffed him and stood my ground. Then in February they had a different person who told me since I was paying a full payment each month that they had only reported one 30 day late payment to the credt agencies, plus they even forgave the costly late fee this month. So I do think they are making an adequate effort, in my case at least. But it almost appears as if they were ordered to start busting balls at about New Years, then decided to back off and try the softer approach after the ball busting did not work.
My neighborhood is almost all subprime and we are all still in or homes. Unlike speculators and second home buyers, these homes are all we have, so we will be fighting hard on the economic front to keep them. I don’t think the central banklng school of wealth-exchangers was expecting that as they still try to blame their runaway gambling addictions on ’subprime’. Amongst those of us who actually do some sort of productive work for a living, the central bankers and their obviously self-supporting money printing have become a joke and laughingstock.
As to survival tactics, among the usual strategies, many around here have even gone so far as to rent their yards out to people living in RVs. Hence the neighborhood has become very crowded, and zoning and code violations are rampant. At same time, new homes paradoxically stand empty all over town. But one just around the corner did sell recently for a solid price and all of the rentals around here are now full finally so it looks like things may be firming up, around here at least.
Biggest problem right now is not the mortgage but making today’s money. The job market is very weak and moneymaking opportunities for those who hustle are few and far between these days.
Hello Mike,
Good points– but I wanted to clarify a few things.
“Its time for those to conclude that they made very poor decisions and have had to accept responsiblity of their mistakes. Next time…perhaps they wont take buying a home or refinancing thier mortgage so cavilierly. ”
I agree that this whole crisis offers many a reminder of the importance of accepting responsibility for our financial decisions. Owning a home is an enormous responsibility and while homes are an ‘asset’ they are a significant “expense” for most.
The disclosure part of your post is an interesting point and provides for my largest bone of contention. While it is the duty of the individual at the closing table to read and understand these disclosures; a notary is merely a witness and not a source of information for answering any detailed questions about the loan product. Similiarly, the closing attorney present (unless the borrower brings his own) represents the lenders interest, and NOT the borrower. This is not to say that he wouldn’t answer questions, but the setup is similiar to the difference b/w PMI and mortgage protection insurance. One is a policy designed to protect the lender, another is a consumer protection policy.
Finally, bank lobbies have been EXTREMELY vocal about protecting YSP (yield spread premium) which are fees that are infrequently (or not readily) disclosed for ‘upselling’ a rate to a borrower. Given the fact that a broker makes a ‘broker fee’ additional fees, buried within the fine print often go un-noticed and create a source of deep consumer skepticism both for collecting more fees (it’s a kickback from the lender) and not offering the borrower the best rate for their situation. Your average person is NOT a mortgage professional, and therefore there needs to be a professional and open relationship between borrower/broker/lender disclosing all fees, in order to make an eduated decision.
Just my thoughts.
KD
To anyone who doesn’t like my comments above… I have the right to say anything I want. And the guy that runs this page has the right to censor me if he chooses. I am not a racist or a bigot and I said what I said because I knew someone would bitch about it….
It seems to me that the worst thing a person can do in this world is offend another person. I didn’t realize that making offensive statements was a criminal act. If you don’t like what I say, then have a response. Don’t go crying to the powers that be about how you are offended. Grow thicker skin…
I also did not destroy a house I owned that was foreclosed on. Wake up people! You are mostly sheep blind to what is really happening on this planet. Certain groups of people in this world go to great lengths to keep you entertained so you will not question what you see. They hide things in plain sight, but you are too busy being offended, watching TV (the most powerful drug of all), or worrying about shit that doesn’t matter when you are gone. Do you really think in the grand scheme of things, it matters if you were a good dog and paid your mortgage on time? FUCK NO! You can’t take it with you! So really, what is the point?
Money is the root of all that is evil!
People should concentrate more on being good and honest rather than the latest offensive statement made on the internet…
Oh and P.S. To Virginia
If you think what I said here was fucked up, think about this… I own a record production company and I am about to put out an album for your kids to listen to. HA HA!
Google me and be warned!
The bank I work for was greatly affected by Katrina, both in our loan footprint, and also in our actual infrastructure. We were forced to start the modifications then. We also have no sub-prime loans in our portfolio, though we service many sub-primes for third-party investors.
Now, I have no love for my bank. I’ve seen the people there do some pretty shitty things, though, I expect, no shittier than any other massive financial institution. I will say, though, that I am proud of our handling of this crisis. Primed by the Katrina foreclosures, we began work-outs on other loans in crisis very early on. I would say that we are a year or more ahead of other banks in our treatment of mortgagors in need.
As pointed out in the article, we don’t want these properties back, so we are making every effort to keep people in their homes. Strong-arm tactics are absolutely unheard of in my collections department. I have on 2 occasions when foreclosure was simply unavoidable, had borrowers THANK me for our kind treatment and helping the borrower keep his or her dignity.
Banks that aren’t following in our footsteps are playing the game the old way. I expect that we will still be standing when the rubble clears. At this point, there is nothing to be lost in sensible workouts for the good of borrower and bank. It is worth calling your institution just as soon as you foresee a problem. I think that as time goes on, more banks will be seeing it our way.
Okay Mr. Hillgrove, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said that I’ve quoted below. It’s quite a lot, actually.
PERHAPS IF THE “LOAN LANGUAGE” WASN’T SO CONVOLUTED AND DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE HOMEOWNER TO UNDERSTAND, YOU GREEDY MOTHERFUCKERS WOULDN’T HAVE SUCH ISSUES….
THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN MONEY…
walking away may not be the answer for everyone, but it’s not the end of the world.
The rich have gotten richer off the broken backs of the poor and middle class for far too long!
Wake up people! Think for yourself and question authority!
Supporting a corrupt system because “it’s all we have” is a disgrace….
the whole world is designed to keep people afraid and in debt.
You (WE) are not free! You (WE) are a slave to the almighty dollar. I
government is in control!
Certain groups of people in this world go to great lengths to keep you entertained so you will not question what you see. They hide things in plain sight
watching TV (the most powerful drug of all)
You can’t take it with you!
Money is the root of all that is evil!
People should concentrate more on being good and honest rather than the latest offensive statement made on the internet…
ooops, I should have correct one part. It’s the LOVE of money that’s that root of all evil, not money itself.
Actually Mr. Hillgrove you ignorant bastard its -
The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.
Additionally you said-
“The fannie mae and freddie mac guideline on foreclosure is 2 years. That means that after 2 years, you could buy a home again.”
Actually its three years but that may change with all the foreclosures. Also filling bankruptcy AND suffering a foreclosure it what is called “multiple life events” and in the near future will likely preclude someone from buying a home again for the seven years it will take for the foreclosure to fall off the credit report.
Aside from those points and the difficulty of sifting though the moronic vulgarities you actually are closer to the truth than most would like to admit (especially after the disgusting display of racism (are you really this big of an ass in person?))Take for example your position on….
…..On second thought I just cant stand the thought of agreeing with a punk like you. Does your mom know you are playing on her computer?
You really need to learn how to speak to adults son.
CTAN
OOOH Dam JacMac you beat me to it lol
ONE WORD SUMS IT ALL UP FOR ME…. KARMA
I am sure you will get yours MH
THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN MONEY…
I am also sure that you will put your money where your big mouth is and give all the money you make with your music productions to the downtrodden……right?????
Actually, I think you are full of it. No one who is a successful music producer would spend time on this blog when he/she could be out corrupting our children…..right????
I am one of those dead beats in a subprime loan and also upside down on the loan the minute we signed the papers. First of all we tried to talk to someone at Wells Fargo and we were unable to get anyone to return our calls and on one occasion I called three times in one day and ask the same question and got three different responses.
I am not a quiter but I thre my hands up and said I can’t handle this anymore and I took all my documents to an attorney and he tried to work things out for us and was also unsuccessful and handed the mess back to us only because he said Wells Fargo was not willing to work with anybody at that time and suggested we contact a bankrupsy attorney. Tthere was nothing in this for the first attorney and he didn’t suggest a specific attorney. When the second attorney looked at things he also tried to work things out with Wells Fargo on our behalf but was also unsuccessful. We ended up filing bankrupsy and it has ended up costing Wells Fargo dearly and not even to mention the wear and tear on our health.
What I am trying to say is that each case is different and should be treated individually with respect. If Wells Fargo would have just assigned one individual to our file and worked with us I think they would have found that the loan was the fault of the loan officer. appraisal company and underwriter.
The articles that you read about this is only the tip of iceburg I think is right and unless the lenders become more realistic and look at how people were put into these loans and that people who they have hired to represent the company will lie to get into a loan and find an appraiser that will make numbers right and an underwriter that will over look things to meet quotas and then you are turned over to a Vinnie.
The American dream was a death sentence for my husband and myself and some of these lenders are getting what they deserve and it is going to weed the good guys from the bad guys and it has been an expensive lesson for banking institutions, borrowers and employees.
NO…. Money IS the root of evil! What would happen if money were removed from society? What if everyone worked because they actually wanted to? And as payment for their days labor, they could have anything they so desired… True Global Cooperation? What about that? Then what would the Bilderberg and Rothschild families do? If there is no money to hold over another human as a status symbol, then we would all pretty much be equal.
And once again, as far as me being a racist goes… what I said is no worse than the language uttered on your tv shows. Take South Park for example, every other word on that show is jew this and faggot that… Why don’t you write your local cable company a letter and tell them how offended you are?
It’s also nice to know I have gotten under some people’s skin!
It’s also good to know that even though I am a racist, asshole, bigot, you people seem to agree with me.
CTAN…. What makes you think I am a child playing on my moms computer? The fact that I use fowl language or the fact that I am right and you just can’t swallow your pride? So go ahead and call me a punk; you can go Benoit yourself!
And Virginia.. yes, I would give the vast majority of my money to charity. I also volunteer my time delivering meals on wheel to senior citizens… So just because I am taking time out of my day to provoke you people, you still shouldn’t judge a book by it’s cover!
It is FOUL not FOWL. Good job MH! OOOOH….you really got under our skins…..You act like you are twelve. I don’t believe a word you say….now go be productive and cut a record and deliver you meals to a worthy senior citizen. And please don’t count me as one of your fans because I don’t agree with you at all….
I am glad you finally get it! I don’t want you to like me. I represent everything that is wrong with this place. My intention is to bring the hatred and ugliness we all portray into a common medium, forcing a person to take a long hard look in the mirror. Are you who you want to be? And what about your life? Do you think it’s fair that you work like a slave only to hope to scrape by during your “golden years” on bullshit social security… Why does the congress and senate have their own pension package to make them all rich, and separate health care plans to keep them well?
Anyway, it is fowl! My language is all about poultry. Please pardon my grammatical mistake, even I am not perfect! And don’t worry, you will forget about me in a couple of days…
Why does everyone seem to think that because their home is depreciating in value, that is what the loan should be modified to. So what when the values start to rise again, shouldn’t their loan be remodified to accomodate the influx in value. What do all these people go to Vegas and complain to the pit boss they want their money back when they lose!!! GET REAL PEOPLE! You are the con artists and you are trying to make the economy who does have common sense about financial matters pay for your mistakes.
Some people let their house foreclose on purpose – they can then live in their home for 2-3 years without paying a thing in Ohio
Ok…ok. no wi have haerd enough…. The banks are guilty, not the pesron who took the cash and ateit all up! Can’t pay the bank, but it’s not your fault for being a Big PIG!!! It’s the banks, the should have realised that you are blameless, and not liable for your own bad decisions! People have been using ther ehouse like an “ATM” for the last 7 years, now the money has run out…. What did you do with that money from that loan??? p/o credit debt? where did that credit debt come form? and why?
All the banks did was make loans to people, who are now saying they we not mature enough to handle their own finances… But they were mature enough to sign the loan papers and take the money and spend it!!! GROW UP !!!!
B.E.L.
to DenCO…we are having a foreclosure tour here on May 10th. I am sure you hear Denver is #4 in the nation for foreclosures.
coming from a broker/lender standpoint on this subject I can say that the Foreclosure Bus Tour is great idea. You HAVE to get the surplus off the market or it will keep getting worse and never recover. It is becoming an epidemic here in Denver, people are walking away left and right. Are we as lenders and realtors trying to make money of this, yes. However why does that make us evil? Would it be better to let them all sit and be vacant and be vandalized and run all the neighborhoods down? As you can see from the above comments, people are trashing these homes because they made poor decisions. That house just brought down the value in the entire neighborhood because he didn’t read the documents correctly or CHOOSE to igonore them!
The economy cannot recover like that and since this is my career, just like everyone else I need to make money to pay my mortgage too.
Not every broker/lender did the unethical loans. I can say that MOST of the people were very well informed on what they were getting, and they still CHOOSE to go with the cheapest payment they could get and were reminded it wouldn’t stay that way. MOST didn’t care. These people are adults, it is there right to choose and be well informed and MOST were. For those that were douped with bad loans, it is sad I agree. But you hear about all these people who were at the signing table who said “the rate changed or it was interest only and they said it would be fixed” If you notice there is something wrong…..why would you sign anyway? Signing documents that clearly say you are responsible for $200k I would think should be taken very seriously!
My Wife and i purchased a home are very first value 146,000 paid 126,500 went with interest only! Never late on payments but in the last 5 months we has issues on paying a few days late due to the countrywide office closing in are area. Countrywide refuses to change are due date! Refiance or anything to help. We have religiously paid even pay 100 bucks on principal each month still isnt enough for these idiots. They tried and tried to get us to do a 2nd mortage where we would have recieve 46,000 cash money. This company should be shut down they are lying cheating slugs that take advantage of people like us. I recieved a letter of intent to foreclose and we where 6 days late? Go online every month and say when to expect payment and even call…And it averages 4 to 8 days late. But the letter says they want my november payment and december payment by dec 3rd total of 1946.00 dollars…Ok November was due on the 15th thats the grace period end date…So i have till the 15th in dec to pay that month??? But im not taking any chances im paying them in full plus some on principal . Its just really frustrating when we have paid onetime for 3 1/2 years and then the last 5 months due to career changes and pay period conflicts and countrywide office closing we cant be a few days late!!!! I hate countrywide and hope they all get what they deserve!
Hey I’m new and I guess this is as good a place as any to see if anyone knows of a good loss mitigation training course?
I keep hearing about people making tons of money becoming foreclosure consultants.
So, If you have any info or you have purchased a good course, please share. I’m retired and looking for a home based business that I can earn a decent income with.
Thanks,