Email Contributed by Brandy
Hi Moe,
Your article Countrywide Hope Department Blues dated Aug 22nd is so true. I’ve been on the merry-go-round for nearly three months now and we have finally come to a reasonable loan modification, but we’re still hashing out some details. Like you suggested, I refused to accept terms that I knew I couldn’t commit to and didn’t benefit me in the long run. Here are some bullet points of my nightmare
Hours in call center transfer hell cycle
- Telling 5-6 different reps per call who I am, loan number, phone number, address, last 4-digits of SS
- Many calls “dropped” which I am quite sure weren’t an accident
- The first few rounds of CSRz never gave me accurate,consistent information to which I have to insist on speaking with a supervisor
- Forget trying to get a hold of your mitigation agent…the person making the loan modification terms in an effort to expedite this process…instead you talk to CSRs that aren’t knowledgeable due to many reasons possibly out of there control but a few are just incompetent and don’t care
- They NEVER, and I mean, NEVER call you back – WAIT, they did call me back twice in three months but each time was to the wrong number, not the number I repeatedly requested, so I had to call back and go through the call center transfer hell cycle. I’m convinced that’s part of the game they play so you’ll just give up.
- One CSR actually called me back and said he had no idea why he was calling me and that a peer gave him a piece of paper with my number on it and said to call it. That was a productive call- NOT. To which I asked for his supervisor and asked her if she knew that her employee X was making call and had no reason why and was actually admitting that to the customer, me.
- Supervisors will ask you to hold and then transfer you without telling you and you’re then talking to someone entirely new
Moe, I honestly felt like I was in the twilight zone at times. I am overwhelmed at the level of incompetency or lack of desire of job ownership. If I conducted business, like Countrywide, I would be unemployed.
Just thought I would share. It just seems to help. I’m glad I found your article because I was starting to feel like I was the idiot.
I feel compelled to balance my sympathy with suspicion that this person, or at least many others in similar circumstances, are benefitting from a better deal because they, like the banks, made bad decisions. Before castigating Countrywide for not treating you like royalty when you call to renege on a contract (and cost them money), perhaps you can tell readers of this blog why you now require a loan modification. Did you not read your original mortgage contract carefully? If you conducted business in this way, how are you much different than Countrywide?
In the end, taxpayers will buy everyone a house and pay every banker their cash bonus, while those of us who waited and saved to buy a home face inflation, higher mortgage payments, and more exacting lending conditions. I will try and feel your pain at the hardship of dealing with a company that is probably going to go bankrupt for its errors, as I pay much more than you for the privilege of borrowing money from one of the remaining solvent lenders who survive borrowers who fail to honor their lending agreements. I will seek to understand your hardship as I pay higher taxes to bail out the GSEs that buy your worthless paper and patch up your neighbors windows to make your neighborhood nicer. I will attempt empathy as I apply to lenders who now look askance at people with even good credit. I am not sure I will succeed.
I know this may not be the place to do it, but I’m going to throw in a little compassion for the lenders’ staff. Business as usual was you make loans, a few of them go bad and the house gets foreclosured. That’s what they were used to.
Now it’s a whole new ball game. Many, many, many loans are going bad. Loan modifications are the new game, but few people in the company have experience or authority to do them. Some of the borrowers calling you are clear and concise, others are panicky and incoherent. Some of the borrowers calling you have no hope of saving their house, others do. You’ve tried telling the lost causes that they won’t be getting a loan mod but they won’t accept that, so you just find ways of ducking them. After all, it’s not like you’ve all sorts of spare time on your hands with the massive number of phone calls coming in. You can’t get a straight answer from your supervisor, as they seem as frazzled as you feel. There has been a massive wave of layoffs in other departments at the bank, and once the current crisis ends you suspect your department will get hit next.
Maybe these organizations aren’t performing as well as they should, but maybe they have a reason. And maybe that person on the other end of the phone is losing their house as well.
I have been helping a lot of people get through these Loan Modifications. All of the clients I have helped have really been trying to keep their homes and are just having a really hard time financially. It is their dream to have a home and yes most of them did understand the terms of the original loan but there are life changes that catch up to people in the worst times. All of those I helped had jobs that have been severly affected by this mortgage downfall. I do undertand all of your comments on both sides but for a bank loosing is not the same as for a family. It is very depressing for many families that never had to go to a food bank before and now they are having to do just that. Not one of those people I helped has left their house to be foreclosed on. All of them have modified their loan terms to be fixed for 3 to 5 years which has given them hope again. There are alot of people that had 720 fico scores that were getting the worst rates possible. I had to really go through all the loan docs to realized what these loan originaters did. I am not blaming all of them, just he ones who ran off with thousands of dollars and left people with huge rates. But here is a reality check EVERYONE is affected by this crisis… one way or another we all end up paying for it. But I think Brandy is making a really good point the process if loan modification is really set up for you to give up. They are supposed to make it hard for you to get this done. I will tell you that Countrywide is extremely hard to get things done with. After making all these calls for 36 families… in 2007, I made a firend or two at Countrywide and they are told to do these very annoying things to people. The quickest have been through Option One .. 3 weeks. Countrywide 4 months. EMC 5 to 6 months and still waiting.
Hey Rational Expectations -
I understand you played by the book. In fact, I even respect that. You may have an income, a savings plan, and a credit score that allowed you to get a decent mortgage. Maybe with a slightly higher interest rate, but with a reputable lender, with a good down payment you’d been preparing for, and all the goodies of the American dream all rolled in to one.
Well, how about the rest of America? Those who were looking for a place to support their families that didn’t involve a 2 bedroom apartment for a family of 4 (or more)? How about those who went looking for a good place to live in and invest in, being told that we’re “getting the best deal out there”, and you’re “just throwing money away when you rent”? If its the consumer’s responsibility, then how can anyone with an income (and even some without, unbelievably enough) could land a 350k mortgage, with facts that were never fully revealed (no docs loans anybody?). Or, like others, maybe they were told “its not the greatest mortgage right now, but if you get your credit scores up, 6 months to a year from now, you can refinance, and we can lower your payments by a few hundred – but this at least gets you in the house.”
Except then the industry tanked. I, personally, found myself applying to 5 or 6 lenders to refinance, based on my mortgage brokers initial advice. Each time, about 3 days from closing, we’d discover that the lender was closing its doors. Overnight, our financial plan was turned upside down. And the best part is, with prepayment penalties, the average American can now /lose/ money, just for selling their house at its original value! Yes, I can pay my mortgage company just for the privilege of avoiding bankruptcy. Isn’t that wonderful?
How about those of us who were never told that we were signing up for an ARM, but recently got letters saying “expect your mortgage payments to jump up by $700″? All of this, and I never even dealt with Countrywide, who are notorious for their backhanding schemes.
I have no sympathy for Countrywide. When their president puts forth one of the biggest marketing campaigns in the industry, including fliers, mailers, tv commercials, radio ads, and outbound calls at dinnertime of brokers saying “I just want to get you the best deal possible”, then dumps half of his stock for untold millions after the industry goes south, but THEN says “remember, our clients came to us, we didn’t seek them out” (Businessweek, Sept 2007, paraphrase) … I don’t have any sympathy. When rumors circulate about software designed to intentionally ignore borrowers savings accounts and down payments, so that interest rates stay up, I don’t have any sympathy. This “service” they so altruistically provided, lined their pockets pretty well, in interest-only loans, closing fees, prepayment penalties, you name it.
The average consumer has been taken for a ride, by creditors, lenders, and financiers alike. And if the average consumer can get a bit back by making Countrywide and others renegotiate their loans, drop some payments, and get a bit of their life back, I say more power to us. And if it means Countrywide’s stock goes down a bit, and the Fed steps in to help stop half of America from being foreclosed on, I (personally) think it’s about bloody time.
But you can hold your head up high, right? You probably make your payments on time, your credit scores are pretty good, so you *must* be a better consumer.
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Thanks for this nice post.
Handy Saputra
Home Loan, Mortgage Articles, Resources and Information
Hi! I just read your article to day and I am very thankful for your information. I have been dealing with Countrywide for the past three years. First, I was never informed that I had an adjustable rate loan until I was told by a Countrywide Customer Service Rep, that I should file a Chapter 13. I did this and it was no benefir to me. I have almost 20, 000 dollars up fornt equity in my home in which no one!! from Countrywide informed that I could use. They waited until after getting way, way behind as I dound over a year that I could use to refinance. I am furious with them from their under handiness and Reps telling you different things. I have been waiting since 12/08 for them to modify a loan with me. I have spoke to my personal bankruptcy technician-which assured me that they will… work out something with me/ I gave them information they needed to modify my loan in January and up to last night I have been speaking to different Reps which led me to believe that they will help me. I found out last night they denied my loan modification. But! No one never said a word to me all this time. I am so disappointed because no one never said … You know you can get refinance with the equity you already have in your home. Now that I have been behind and everything else.!! GUess what! No one not even them will refinance me. Please tell me who can I talk to? I want to talk to whom of high authoruty that I can to help me save my home. I kept in contact with them for the past 2 months to assure them I want to keep my home. They said they will work with me no matter what to stay in my home. That this is there job, anything to help keep it and so they want lose money. I live in North Carolina. Please help!! Thank you!! Much!!
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Its pretty bad but comforting to see that other people are experiencing the same thing. We have also had financial problems and are working through a loan modification. I have made the calls and listened to the csr’s and your right they haven’t a clue. oh and you got cut off “accidentally” and then force to listen to that horrible countrywide “HOLD” music and then have to go through the acct # then bla bla bla… They DO lie my Negotiator notated that he talked to me but he hasn’t. In fact I have placed several emergency calls to him and he has Never returned my call within the 24 period that they stated. Just dont give up because there are people who are destroying their homes and just walking away leaving them for the lenders to deal with. Its Your house and its worth saving. Mine is anyways I love it and I have worked hard for it. Good luck in your seemingly impossible task and know I am in it with you and have been since Christmas. I still have not gotten it settled and we are going on several months all the while more fees and interest are accruing…… Yea Im so glad I chose Countrywide Thats sarcasm if you didn’t catch that
Oh my gosh! I can relate to Hattie’s email. I’ve been working on a modification since JANUARY! I have called every week for 6 months! I have spoken to many a representative, some get laid off, or they don’t know, $10 and hour reps that don’t have a clue of what is going on in the industry! I have learned so much during this process more then the reps themselves. I want to keep my homes and meanwhile there is no one that has been able to help me. I’m told that now the homes are in foreclosure when i was told by all these reps earlier and for the past 6 months that not to worry that they would help and were working on this! I was NEVER told that my modifications on my four homes were denied until last week! I’m so upset with the system that Countrywide has! One rep. told me there was no hope, nothing they could do – just to pay or forget it! I could not believe the attitude! Meanwhile, I’m a stubborn ox who continues to call and now am back to a ‘conditioned approval’ for review for modification from Countrywide. I’ve called and called until I have reached the person that can help and meanwhile while it’s in review it holds off the sale date, it extends it. I’m not sure for how much longer I can go on sleepless nights but I’m going to do everything I can to get this straight. Who can I call or speak with? I need advice on who to contact.
Dianna,
i have been back & forth with CountryWide since last June 2007 & was fortunate enough to find http://www.LoanSafe.org last month & has finally put me in the right track to save my home and my family….
Good Luck !
i have been going through the same things with countrty wide since august of last year trying to do a loan modification the help at customer service is sinceless i call everyday thats the only way i stay afolat they put you further behind than what you are i will stay prayed up because i know god will see me through
sandy
virginia
757-235-0577
I have a 30 years, fixed rate, and current mortgage. My condo has been on the market for two years. I recently called the mortgage company to get a p/o on my mortgage. I reached a recording that gave me my p/o, but also said I had a negative escrow balance. I started pushing buttons until I reached a real voice. The conversation went as follows: Me “I just called to get a p/o on my loan, and the recording said I had a negative escrow balance, can you tell me what that means”? CW representative “Your payment is going up”. Me “Could you tell me why”? CW representative “Your taxes went up”. Me “I can’t make this increased payment and when was I going to be notified about this”? CW representative “If you can’t make the new payment, you have 45 days to vacate the property”. Me “I don’t understand how this is happening, what are my options”? CW representative “Make the new payment”. Me “I am on CW’s website and I am reading about the Financial Hardship assistants offered – “If you are behind on your mortgage payment, or think you may fall behind due to financial hardship, call us to find out how we may be able to help”. I have no financial means of making the increased payment amount, so yes I will fall behind due to financial hardship. CW representative “You don’t qualify”. This entire conversation was like pulling teeth. Me “Why don’t I qualify”? CW representative “You are not delinquent”. Me “The website clearly states or think you may fall behind”, what options do I have”? CW representative (you guessed it) “If you can’t make the new payment, you have 45 days to vacate the property”. Me “If I understand you, CW would rather add a condo to their inventory then to help me now”? CW representative “Is there anything else I can help you with”?
Countrywide has not inteniton of helping us/ many promises, encouragement from all US Florida senators, the govenor, and the office of thrift- I was told no cannot help – live with it or move along/promised calls not returned,
if you get success from CW bless you and let me know if yo have any suggestions =