This has been bugging me for quite sometime now and I thought I would dedicate a blog post to voice how sickened I am by the fact that the very companies and people who have single handedly created this housing bubble and mortgage crisis are involved in the clean up process.
All these forums and seminars that are put on by local and state governments and are hosted by eager lenders and their representatives who now “help” struggling borrowers with the “very” toxic mortgage they sold them.
I am sorry, but I do not want the same guy helping me and my family that just scammed, duped, swindled and sold me a ”lemon loan” and now this same doofus wants to help me fix the “bad loan” after he has pocketed his profits.
Screw that!
That’s like asking Kenneth Lay to come back from the dead and have him assist in the restructuring of Enron and help investors by looking at their stock portfolios . It’s also akin to asking Richard Ramirez (the serial killer) to come off of death row and help clean up his bloody crime scenes. Then have the scumbag give seminars and hugs to the families of his murder victims.
Does that make sense?
Meanwhile, it seems like every little clean up effort involves eager lenders and servicers that are now dedicated “do gooders” that go around from city to city, meeting with borrowers, so they can look over their loans and try and fix them.
It’s like Robin Hood in reverse. They are Hood Robins!!!!!! These guys stole from the poor and gave to the rich.
I am very disappointed with many of our great Governors and Mayors of the country and let me show you just how lame this all is. I am beginning to think that this is now a “mortgage circus” and NOT a mortgage crisis.
You have to read just how ridiculous this is. They contradict their motives and to me it is all just public lip service.
This press release just came out from the New York State Banking Department:
Thousands of New York homeowners will be able to have their loans reviewed by bank and mortgage servicing company representatives, during “Operation Protect Your Home.” The series of forums, which begins on February 23, is a joint effort between the New York State Senate Democratic Conference, the New York State Banking Department, and lending institutions. The events are intended to assist borrowers who may be struggling to make mortgage payments or who are at risk of defaulting on their mortgage.
“While we work inside the Legislature to close the loopholes that allowed unscrupulous lenders to put these families on the verge of losing their homes, Democratic State Senators are committed to working outside the chamber with key players in the financial industry to avoid further harm to working families affected by the subprime lending crisis,” said Senate Democratic Leader Malcolm Smith (D-St. Albans).
They start of the press release with, “Thousands of New York homeowners will be able to have their loans reviewed by bank and mortgage servicing company representatives.” Then it goes on to say, “While we work inside the Legislature to close the loopholes that allowed unscrupulous lenders to put these families on the verge of losing their homes, Democratic State Senators are committed to working outside the chamber with key players in the financial industry to avoid further harm to working families affected by the subprime lending crisis,” said Senate Democratic Leader Malcolm Smith (D-St. Albans).”
So let me get this straight Mr. Smith and the State of New York. You guys are working to close loopholes that allowed unscrupulous lenders to put these families on the verge of losing their homes. Yet, you are allowing these very same people to look over the unscrupulous loans they created?
HUH! Where is the sense in that???!!!!!
The reality is that many of these homeowners that are facing foreclosure or in toxic loans are really the victims of predatory lending and or mortgage fraud. They need legal help and a “true” advocate that will look at these loans and tell the truth.
These loans should be examined by “independent” third parties that have no interest in these transactions or mortgages. This independent organization should act as a non-biased “buffer” between the lender and the homeowner. This organization’s purpose should be to identify unlawful and predatory mortgages. They then should properly advise the borrower on what they can do to remedy their situation and refer them to a proper “consumer” advocate attorney, who is on site and can give them “real and honest” legal advice.
Not a damn lender representative, who’s best interest is for the company he serves.
My question to the State of New York and all these other state and local municipalities is, “When are you “really” going to get serious and “protect” the people for which you serve.”
FYI- It’s NOT the banks you serve!
{ 62 comments… read them below or add one }
It amazes me how everyone points the finger at lenders and mortgage brokers. To say you were “scammed, duped, swindled” is a great excuse as to why your not paying your mortgage. It’s hilarious!
You were all quick to sign on the dotted line and take the mortgage, using your house as a credit card to live the lifestyle you cannot afford. Did you think that being greedy and irresponsible wouldn’t blow up in your face?
You deserve to lose your house for being so reckless ane ignorant!
The writer of this article is a complete moron. I completely agree with Anne. Everyone wants to blame everyone else, but themselves. Take responsibility for your actions. You signed the paperwork, now live with the consequences. Your house isn’t the checkbook that you think it is. There is plenty of blame to go around. And everyone from lenders, brokers, wall street, and borrowers (yes borrowers) had their hand in the cookie jar. Unfortunately, it blew up.
My question to the State of New York and all these other state and local municipalities is, “When are you “really” going to get serious and “protect” the people for which you serve.”
That is an unbelievable statement above. Always looking for the government to bail you out for the mess that you got yourself in.
So….
Where do you plan to find all of these ” ‘independent’ third parties that have no interest in these transactions or mortgages” that know enough about the industry to give “real and honest” advice? There aren’t people out there outside the industry that know enough to help. Anyone that knows enough to really help are still in the business because they are professionals and know what they are doing. All the scammers and snakes have already died on the vine.
Jeez, gimme a break!
Moe,
I think you need a better understanding of who is really to blame for the credit meltdown which is too often referred to as the subprime meltdown.
While there is a considerable amount of blame that could be placed on borrowers, realtors and mortgage originators, the MOST blame goes to those that enabled all of these players to do “bad” things.
The MOST blame clearly belongs to the securitization side of the mortgage industry as well as the ratings agencies.
Lenders do not lend unless the paper can be securitized. The securitization industry and the ratings agencies committed the fraud that implicated the rest of the players.
By fraudulently labeling mortgage backed securities as AAA investments, when in fact they were considerably less credit worthy than that, the securitizers allowed the proliferation of sub investment grade securities to be spread around the world. This was done with the blessing of the ratings agencies who should have blown the whistle on the faux credit quality of the mortgage backed securities.
Not only did these players and their actions spread the bad paper globally like a virus, the money generated by the securitization process enabled and even forced the lenders and originators to make bad loans.
Had the securitizers been caught earlier for their misdeeds, like after the first pool of mis labeled mortgages were sold, the loan programs in question would have never appeared on rate sheets and product matrices of originators across the nation.
Thus, borrowers, realtors and originators would not have had the means to create the situation we are now faced with.
To understand this premise, you need to realize that lenders do not lend if the loans cannot be securitized. The bad loans would have never been securitized to the extent they did, without the fraudulent representation of their credit quality. Had the ratings agencies been doing their job, they would have caught the mis labeled securities, blown the whistle and stopped the cascading events in their tracks. With very or little damage done.
As an originator, I draw a parallel among the mortgage origination industry and illegal immigration.
Once businesses started hiring illegal labor, allowing these businesses to undercut their competition, it was only a matter of time before the competition also hired illegal labor. They had to in order to survive. Without the regulatory mechanisms kicking in, illegal labor spread to all area of business.
It’s similar in the origination industry. Once the products hit our rate sheets and matrices, if we didn’t do a certain type of loan, the borrower could get that loan from our competition. So even if you didn’t believe in the types of loans being originated, you had to originate or go out of business. There is an old saying in the business. “Would you lend them your money”? There were many times in the last 7 or 8 years when I said, “I’m glad it’s not our money we’re lending”.
The future mal-performance of the subprime and alt a paper was plain for everyone to see. But no one could buck the trend as long as Wall Street kept being the ultimate funder on these programs. Throwing trillions of dollars at originators, realtors and buyers to get in trouble with.
Having said all of this, yes it makes sense for the origination part of the industry to assist in the clean up of the credit debacle. I am doing this on a small and independent basis. I’m a professional and want to clean up this mess before the industry is no more. Which would mean the economy is no more.
The people that point the finger exclusively at borrowers have no clue how the financial system in the US works. The defaulting homeowners are taking responsibility for their loans in that their credit is ruined for 2-10 yrs. depending on what they do with their home. Even to get any modification most lenders/banks want you to be in default(90 days behind) so they can be in the driver’s seat. If a homeowner gets foreclosed on, files bankruptcy etc. one would have to be completely ignorant to state they get off scott free.
The financial free enterprise system ran wild the past 5 yrs. and now ALL US taxpayers will be paying the price for a very long time. When this “stimulous package” gets signed it will allow banks and lenders to be paid back by you the American people if loans default (gov’t insured). Conforming limit will be raised to $729,500….. do you think the rate for conforming (normally $417,000) will stay the same or go up. What you really need to be looking at is what the gov’t. is attaching to each so-called “stimulous” or “bailout”. They’re all written to help the investors/lenders not the regular joe.
To all of the people who are in danger of losing your house because of the loan you signed…I say, IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE…Its not like it would be legal for your payment to just double with no paperwork or warning. You signed an ARM..that means ADJUSTBALE RATE MORTGAGE.
Just ask the IRS…CAVEAT EMPTOR……you signed the loan now make your payments or sell your house. It is truly that simple.
When you signed your paperwork I guarantee you that you signed at least four separate documents that described EXACTLY how your payment was going to adjust. Now you cant make the new payment and it is somehow the lender’s fault? That is ridiculous. As a matter of fact if there was any fraud it was more than likely on the part of the borrower trying like heck to get into a house that his brother-in-law would be jealous of. This is symptomatic of corroding social values in America and yeah I am sure people on the inside took advantage of you but still…you signed the loan now make the payments.
I have seen one or two too many people on the news crying about how a broker or a lender lied without them knowing it…whatever, If you make $15 dollars an hour you should be well aware that youy cannot afford a half a million dollar home. It is simple math…this is truly silly, if you could barely afford your rent on a one bedroom apartment then what makes you think you can buy a 3500 square foot home.
What this is about is a bunch of people being stupid and now wanting the Government to step in and save their behinds.
My rate adjusted and I lost my job at the same time. You know what I did? I sold the house probably for seven or eight percent less than what it was worth a year ago. Tough luck….I took a gamble and it didnt work out. I didnt stand around shouting at everyone that would listen, namely news reporters, about how some mortgage broker or some mortgage lender screwed me. I signed an ARM and I lived and died with the consequences.
Of course these responses are coming from the mortgage industry veterans. Wow, what a surprise, yawn………..
I don’t think most of you all really got the point and that is completely understandable because your thoughts and actions in regards to the “mortgage circus” are influenced by your chosen profession. It doesn’t take a degree in sociology to figure that one out.
Mortgage Guy, you are one of the few people that I would allow to look at my mothers mortgage and let her know what she can do to avoid foreclosure.
The rest of the wolves in sheeps clothing can continue working with the state and local municipalities.
I understand that lenders and the banking industry in general is a crucial element in the clean up process. The crucial elements and resources that they should bring to the table are “MONEY” and “MORE STAFF” to clean up the mess in which they helped create.
Moe, I usually agree w/ you 110% but here I’m going to take a little side step.
Technically, it would be perfect for the lenders who played a large part in creating this mess to clean it up.
Haven’t you ever seen the prisoners on the highway cleaning up the debris?
What about when my kids break something or make a mess, I most certainly (and with great delight) tell them that they BETTER FIX IT and CLEAN IT UP or else.
It’s a learning lesson for them. You broke it, You Bought it 101
It’s like Exxon Valdez Oil Spill. It’s truly the most healing experience for both parties, if and let me say that word again: IF it’s done with integrity.
The murderer, IF — IF he is able, can look into the eyes of his victims and understand the damage that he’s done. He/she can face his victims parents and come to the realization that he’d devestated the lives of others.
The victim, IF she/he is able, other the victims family can reach deep inside of themselves and offer forgiveness, because holding onto resentment and anger is like taking poison and wishing the other person will die.
BUT not everyone is ABLE to do this. Not everyone is strong enough, and has enough inside to sustain them.
But that’s not even the case here, so I’m stepping over to agree with you again (as usual
)
It’s not about being unable or not being strong enough, the lenders their government buddies are not at all being honest or acting w/ integrity, AS USUAL.
They’ve got their own little sneaky agenda fully backing their secret intentions which will only truly benefit themselves and not the common man.
By their fruits we continually clearly get to know them. They keep SAYING they are doing things that they are CLEARLY NOT DOING.
To say that we should blame the securitization industry is laughable because it is still the banks who make the final decision to lend. What must be looked at and considered is WHY did all of these players do what they did?
WHY in the world did all of them work so seemlessly together to perpetrate a massive fraud on the American people that has sent us head long into a recession?
I say it’s because all of these players were in BED TOGETHER. They were all looking out for each other because it made them SHIT loads of money.
If the borrower made a couple of bucks in the process it didn’t mean a damn thing to them because they knew in the end most borrowers would be screwed and they’d line their pockets with what was left after they were finished with them.
And to all the Mirror Smokers and Clone — oops I mean Mortgage Brokers and Loan Officers, blah, blah, gagggg, swoooooon, arggghhh, blech, YAAAAAAWWWWNNNNNN WWWWWWHAAAAATTTTTEVVVVER!!!!
Don’t you guys ever get tired of whiiiinnning?
Remember you don’t see peoples are they are — you see others as YOU ARE!!!
If you see borrowers as greedy, taking easy street opportunists who are now whining then take a look in the mirror — that’s who you’re describing.
I know it’s hard to swallow so I’m fully expecting you guys to spit it back out as you accuse and accuse and attacks some more.
Typical.
I’d like to know where in the “blame the homeowner” scenario do the lenders and their cronies (YOU) become accountable for the mess they all worked together to create?
“My question to the State of New York and all these other state and local municipalities is, “When are you “really” going to get serious and “protect” the people for which you serve.”” ~ Moe
“That is an unbelievable statement above. Always looking for the government to bail you out for the mess that you got yourself in.” ~ Joe
Ha, ha, ha, HHHHAAAAA — heeeeee, heeee
Let me ask you Einsteins something: What do you think the JOB of the government is?
The job of the government is to operate in the people’s best interest otherwise WHAT IN THE HELL are we paying them for?
“The fundamental purpose of government is the maintenance of basic security and public order — without which individuals cannot attempt to find happiness. People in a community create and submit to government for the purpose of establishing for themselves, safety and public order.”
With all the sharks, predators and snakes out there, as is EVIDENCED BY THE MORTGAGE industry can you imagine where we’d be without GOVERNMENT.
At least the the government’s support of big business and tolerance of ultimate greed kept Wall Street from feeding on us until there was nothing left.
As it is, we’ve been hooked up to life support on one end, and a blood bank on the other, as the vampires go to town on our @$$es!!!
Well, first of all, the state isn’t there to protect anyone right now (try suing the police department if they “fail” in their “duty” to “protect” your life, liberty and property, such as if your car is stolen or your are mugged). So they’re not going to suddenly, magically, start “protecting” homeowners from bad loans unless it serves the bureaucrats’ self-interest of keeping property taxes high enough to maintain their corruption. The managers of the local offices of these subprime loan sharks are sitting on election boards and donating to state and local campaigns to keep their preferred candidates in as much power as possible.
Moving up a level, interest rates are controlled at the federal level by the Federal Reserve, which is owned primarily by the large banks which are now suffering the most and need the Fed to bail them out repeatedly. They brought rates as low as possible for years to induce more buyers, then when rates rose and defaults occurred in droves, the banks made out by taking over large sections of the country’s real estate, and getting free money care of the government.
So, yes, we should have a third party independent of both government and banks to provide some help, if homeowners want it. But I wouldn’t trust the mortgage companies or the government to provide any “independence” to people.
JacMac wrote: “To say that we should blame the securitization industry is laughable because it is still the banks who make the final decision to lend.”
With all due respect JacMac, lenders do not make the final decision to lend. All lending decisions are based upon the ability to securitize the paper. Lenders don’t lend unless the loan can be securitized. Thus it is the securitizer who has the last say and is the second to ultimate funder. The ultimate funder is the buyer of the mortgage backed security.
What the securitizers did was create a fraudulent product that sold like illegal drugs. They sold trillions of dollars of these securities because they had an uncharacteristically high yield for a AAA rated investment.
Because the bad paper was easily securitized, due to its fraudulent rating, the securitizers encouraged the origination of the toxic paper.
If a loan program isn’t on my rate sheet or product matrix, I cannot sell it. It shows up on my rate sheet because the loan can be sold off as part of an investment pool. The matrix for qualification and classification of the loan is set by the securitizer not the lender. Lenders are not the end lender in 99% of originations. The investor who buys the mortgage backed investment is truly the end lender. Everyone else is in essence a middleman. It’s highly unlikely that the end lender, the investor, would have bought this paper having known it’s true risk characteristics.
It is indeed the securitizers, due diligence firms/departments and credit rating agencies who bear the most fault for the situation we are in. It was their fraud that allowed the bad loans to happen. It was their actions, spreading toxic paper around the globe through fraud, that caused the most damage to the most people.
There is no way a relatively small number of home buyers, unscrupulous realtors and originators can destroy the US debt markets and thrust the economy into recession. You are giving them too much “credit” and power.
Mortgage Guy, I still believe that the securitization industry you’re speaking of are close cousins to the lending industry, and they are looking out for each other’s interest.
“There is no way a relatively small number of home buyers, unscrupulous realtors and originators can destroy the US debt markets and thrust the economy into recession. You are giving them too much “credit” and power.” ~Mortgage Guy
No, that’s it — I’m not saying that at all. We actually agree. I think everyone is working together towards common goal, greed. I don’t think we’ll see the reality of whatever secret plan is going on until much further ahead in the future. What would be the purpose of having done this, as you say, destroying the U.S. debt markets and thrusting the economy into recession — it must have been for very good reason, don’t you think?
I always think it is to eventually eliminate the middle class and create a society of just extremely rich and very poor, but that’s my conspiracy theory.
Interesting ideas floating around here, and I can’t let things go without throwing in my two cents. Make sure you read para 3.
Firstly for Moe. Your post belittles the idea of lenders taking a part in solving this problem, yet isn’t that pretty much what a loan work out is? Have you been giving people bad advice by encouraging them to contact their lenders and push hard for a modification? I’m thinking you noticed this inconsistency yourself based upon your last paragraph in comment #10. I would have made this post more along the lines of “the lenders are finally stepping up their efforts, but don’t trust them the way you did the first time; get outside help.”
What is happening is the lenders are looking for good candidates for loan modifications, ie. people that will be able to pay for the next few years on loans that they are holding. They won’t spend much time on lost causes. But they will be only looking at what is in their best interests, which may or may not coincide with the borrowers’. You’ll never here them say “We can modify your loan to these terms, but it’s probably in your best interest to walk away.” If they can convince people to keep paying, they’ll do it because it is in their best interest.
So here is how you play it. Don’t be a desperate borrower. While you are on the phone with the lender, have one foot outside the door and a rental all picked out. If they offer a 5%, 30 year fixed, you counter offer. “I’m afraid at that rate I can’t justify staying in this house. A 4.5%, 30 year fixed with $25,000 forgiven would work. I’ll be putting the keys in the mail at the end of next week if you can’t accept that deal.”
Anne and Joe. Some borrowers were duped. Illegal type stuff. Other borrowers didn’t do their homework and are hurting for it. They certainly should have been more careful, especially considering the size of the decision they were making. Having said that, they still need to do what they can to improve their situation. Those that are playing the victim will get little sympathy from me, but those that are doing their best to use what they’ve learned to save their home or get out of their bad situation deserve respect and encouragement.
JacMac. I think you’re dead on with the idea of those who created the problem fixing it. Good Karma and all. Having said that, outside parties do have a role. Government should be closing loopholes. Non-profits should be helping the lost and confused. Borrowers should be consulting multiple sources of info when deciding what to do going forward. I don’t believe, however, that government should bail any player out since every player has some guilt.
I’ve gone on long enough. Cheers to all.
You are such a cliche….. blaming brokers and lenders is the easiest way to take the attention off the fact that YOU READ WHAT THE PAYMENT WAS ON CLOSING DAY, NOW YOU CAN’T AFFORD IT. Most of these loans are defaulting BEFORE THE ADJUSTMENT PERIOD YOU MONKEY! This means that they new what was going to be the monthly obligation and still signed just to take the cash! I have no sympathy for MOST of the homeowners out there. I agree that a portion of families might have been “swindled” by some bad apples, but this problem is far beyond those loan officers. Good borrowers that have the ability to pay are now walking away from there homes because the equity is dropping….THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM! Quit writing about stuff you dont know about you jackass!
I personally don’t blame the brokers, I place blame on the one’s who approved the loans..THE LENDERS. In the past 6 months, we were not given the option to “not be desperate.” IT is all about the almighty dollar. Countrywide made ALOT of money off my family, and would have continued to do so had they taken what was offered to them. Now, today, I see Countrywide is going to help some. What a joke. Too little, Too late for some of us.
If someone has ability to pay after an issue arises (Shit happens), then it is the lender’s responsibility to negotiate acceptable terms and stop the foreclosures.
Blame has been fixed. Brokers, appraisers and lenders are going to prison in copious quantities. It amazes me that these so-called “Professionals” think they have a defense.
Not to sound to condescending, but if everyone is going to point a finger over sub prime loans why not place it on ACORN and other advocate groups? They were the ones that pushed forward The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 and Home Mortgage Disclosure Act, which advocated banks to lend to all of the community, and not those which actual money or good credit. The birth of subprime finds it’s roots here… since discrimination based on credit worthiness is enough to send up alarms to regulators .. For example, Look how the HMDA works.
Companies covered under HMDA are required to keep a Loan Application Register (LAR). Each time someone applies for a home mortgage at an institution covered by HMDA, the company is required to make a corresponding entry into the LAR, noting the following information.
* The loan amount
* The purpose of the loan (home purchase, home improvement, refinancing)
* The type of property involved (single-family, multifamily)
* The loan type (conventional loan, FHA loan, VA loan or a loan guaranteed by the Farmers Home Administration)
* The location (state, county, MSA and census tract) of the property
* The race of the borrower(s)
* The ethnicity (Hispanic or non-Hispanic) of the borrower(s)
* The gender of the borrower(s)
* Whether or not the loan was granted
* If the loan was denied, the reason why it was denied
* If the loan was denied, whether the interest rate charged was over a certain threshold
* If the loan was subsequently sold in the secondary market, the type of entity that purchased it
Every March reporting institutions are required to submit their LARs to the Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council (FFIEC), an interagency body empowered to administer HMDA.
HMDA data can be used to identify probable housing discrimination in various ways:
* If an institution turns down a disproportionate percentage of applications by certain races (e.g. African Americans), ethnicities (e.g. Hispanics) or genders (typically women) then there is reason to suspect that the institution may be discriminating against these classes of borrowers by unfairly denying them credit. Such discrimination is illegal in the United States.
* If an institution has a disproportionately low percentage of applications by certain races (e.g. African Americans), ethnicities (e.g. Hispanics) or genders (typically women) then there is reason to suspect that the institution may be discriminating against these classes of borrowers by unfairly discouraging them from applying for mortgage loans. Such discrimination is illegal in the United States.
* If an institution has a disproportionately low percentage of applications from certain areas, compared to areas immediately surrounding the area in question, then there is reason to suspect that the institution is engaging in redlining.
* If there is a disproportionate prevalence of high-interest loans to certain classes of borrowers (e.g., Hispanics or women) then there is a reason to suspect that the institution is engaging in price discrimination.
Failure to provide loans brings up calls of redlining, but provide the city loans and than you are stuck in a situation like Cleavland, where they scream reverse redlining for actual providing what they wanted… go figure.
Second, be careful in using the term fraud so loosely. I fail to see where:
1) an individual or an organization intentionally makes an untrue representation about an important fact or event;
2) the untrue representation is believed by the victim (the person or organization to whom the representation has been made);
3) the victim relies upon and acts upon the untrue representation;
4) the victim suffers loss of money and/or property as a result of relying upon and acting upon the untrue representation.
The point to take from this is, life is not fair. simple as that. “What as always made the state hell on earth has been precisely that man has tried to make it his heaven”
“If someone has ability to pay after an issue arises (Shit happens), then it is the lender’s responsibility to negotiate acceptable terms and stop the foreclosures.”- Mom in Michigan
How is the lenders responsibility to renegotiate a contract based on the failure of a party to fulfill it’s contractual obligation? Think very carefully what you are advocating here… The main purpose of contracts is to enable performance to unfold over time without placing either party at the mercy of the other. Contracts do this by regulating the future and interpretative problems that are bound to arise mainly because the future is unpredictable. To renegotiate major elements of the contract based on one parties failure to either plan ahead, or simply live up to their obligation would undermine the very nature of contracts. Foreclosure is nothing more than the remedy provided to the lender to secure his interests in case of default of the underlining contract. They do not have to, and should not, give up or lose money on the deal simply because you do not want to pay. They are not the United Way, or the UN, they are a business whose model is based on lending you money. If you do not like it, than do not borrow.
I cannot imagine going into a restaurant, buying a meal, than telling the establishment that my economic condition has changed and therefore i demand a price adjustment on the meal to accommodate this.
Hey Jim, you are not understanding what I am saying….not a free ride but if someone can pay, then let them pay. Obviously you live in a fantasy land to think that something will not happen by accident to you and force you into a bad situation no matter how you prepare for it.
Only the perps are blaming the victims. Borrowers DID NOT know what they were getting into. They didn’t know prices were skyrocketing because of appraisal fraud. It has been proven by multiple investigations that false advertising lured borrowers into a falsely represented situation and that brokers consistenly altered the contracts after the borrower signed. Inflated appraisals, bait and switch, contracts that are designed to be impossible to read in less than 3 days, intense pressure by brokers to get the “deal” done using the rate lock ruse, and falsified application documents have been discovered repeatedly.
Congress held hearing after hearing of testimony by borrowers who consistently told the same story. It’s all out there, google it. Brokers are toast.
What are you talking about, altering contracts? do you have actual examples? I find this really hard to believe that such a practice would be routine, since a notary public should be on hand when the signatures are placed. But if they simply crossed out the numbers and wrote in pencil new ones than we should see numerous law suits in the judicial system.
As for the borrowers, honestly, for the biggest financial decision in most of these peoples lives you think they would have consulted a lawyer? but none the less, as an adult one must assume that they have complete facility over their choices. If they did not understand it, than why sign it? Is this how far we have sunk, that people are too stupid to even read contracts anymore. What is next, “sorry officer but i simply did not look at the traffic light when i blew through it, but do not hold me responsible for my action, it is those evil engineers fault.”
excluding all the personal opinions one has on the subject, take an object approach to it. If fraud did happen, than evidence of such is prevalent and prosecution should be commenced in these matters. As for the banks, what more can they honestly do? They do not retain ownership of the actual loan, and most of their tentative connection to the document is through a separate servicing agreement. With that they must act in the investors best interests, not that of the borrowers. There is only so much wiggle room that they have in these matters, and foreclosure is really the last thing most want to do. I do not see much of a solution that could be implemented? A freeze on rates, as some have suggested, cannot be done without their consent. IF our government tries something like this, than the WTO decision in light of Antigua’s complaint will look like a walk in the park.
“If someone has ability to pay after an issue arises (Shit happens), then it is the lender’s responsibility to negotiate acceptable terms and stop the foreclosures.”
What planet has contracts that say “pay me until shit happens at which time I renegotiate more favorable terms for you.” I really want some of that koolaid and I am dumping my paid off house tomorrow so I can get me one of them “shit happens” contract on a brand new McMansion! WOW, I’m excited! Are they doing this for new cars too?
Mom in Michigan,
I’m going to respectfully disagree with your “shit happens theory.” Contracts and agreements are made between lenders and borrowers because “shit will happen” and it’s too much to waddle through and vindicate one side over another. When either side doesn’t honor their respective agreements, shit does and is happening, both to the borrower and as we see now, also to lender.
Don’t get it twisted, the only reason lenders are even considering helping now is because they are re-tooling themselves and their new product to roll them out to guess who, you and me, the same borrowers who are catching hell now. Other than that, they don’t really give a “shit”
Buy enough of using shit. The lender should participate but not all will. Why? Out of fairness, “everyone” involved should participate and won’t.
But on the subliminal level everyone already are participating one way or another. Because of the “contract” the lender is no more responsible to you than you to them. If you don’t want to honor your agreement, then be prepared for the consequences. Don’t expect anyone to change the rules to suit you. They have no legal reason to do that. But remember, they want your future business and oddly enough most of us will go back into that murky water and give it to them. Just be ready for what can happen. That’s all.
I only stress to everyone, that you arm yourself with the rules and know how of financing a home. If you are going to stiff the lender, then do your homework first. Know what happens good and bad when you do this and also be ready to accept the responsibility. If you are going to comply with the lender, do your homework. DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
Some lenders are going to play “ass hole” and hold fast to their position. Some will relent and help out. Remember folks, they don’t have to do this.
Chris, nice debate, I see your point also. I am not saying that the lender owes the borrower anything, except my point is if they fall behind and immediately contact the lender, then why cannot some type of agreement be arranged. This is not for the ones who just decide to stop paying. When I said “shit happens” I meant job loss, disability or your infant child having cancer.
And Proud Homeowner, why are you even on this site that is dedicated to people working in the industry, or going thru foreclosure. GO google and find yourself a site where your ignorant comments matter.
Mom in Michigan,
Yes, I agree with you on that. The thing is most people don’t realize that until it’s too late. The other thing that happens is emotions kick in. Pride, embarrassment, trying to correct the problem without help. Some of these things exhaust time and when reality kicks in, it’s normally too late or very difficult for the lender to have any real concern to fixing the situation.
One of the things I tell my borrowers. In the event something happens, quickly call and make an arrangement. It’s much easier when you are down 30 days than 120+. I don’t advocate bailing on a lender, but if you have to or you see it coming, do it now. Don’t wait a year later. What borrowers now are faced with are decisions that impact them and their family and they must make the decision real fast.
Sit back and really access your issue. Get pass real quick, whose fault it is. It doesn’t matter. Really look at all of your options for the immediate and the long term and go with it. You have to make an emotional decision on a business deal, so keep it business.
The good thing about this industry is it will fix itself one way or the other. Borrowers have options and if that means renting, then fine. Rent. People who rent aren’t bad people. People who lost or are losing their homes aren’t bad either. Like you say, “shit happens.”
Credit rebuilds itself. Savings deplete and fatten back up. Lenders who tell you no, will tell you yes again. The world now knows how lenders will truely handle you. Protect yourself. Act accordingly.
Hey Jim,
“Not to sound to condescending, but if everyone is going to point a finger over sub prime loans why not place it on ACORN and other advocate groups? They were the ones that pushed forward The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 and Home Mortgage Disclosure Act, which advocated banks to lend to all of the community, and not those which actual (had) money or good credit.”
Oh, you don’t sound condescending to me at all . . . you sound like a racist.
Are you suggesting the lenders could not have created a responsible lending product that could have afforded Hispanics and African-Americans the opportunity to own a home, rather than trap them in a doomed-to-fail situation where they were placed in homes that the lenders damn well knew they’d not be able to afford in the future . . .
Or are you just saying that they don’t deserve the opportunity to own a home, like everyone else?
Sub-prime, “good credit” — Americans really kill me. Please take a stroll down history and you will soon discover (if you have eyes to see) why economically, socially and financial Hispanics and African-Americans earn much less, have much less and have NEVER been afforded the same opportunities as their Caucasian counterparts.
The subprime issue is not one of color, except green. THe lenders didn’t give a Got Damn who they sold their toxic loans to — and like Moe has said often enough, these loans were sold. SOLD got it.
No one walked into the office and said, ”
Hey, can you give me a loan for an overpriced house with a low teaser rate that will not pay off my loan, but will in fact cause my principal balance to increase outraegously over the next two years, and oh, by the way, can you please lock me into the loan, so that I can’t refinance (which I won’t be able to anyway, ’cause the house aint worth what I’ve bought it for, and the principal balance has gone up to far. But most importantly, can you put a cap on the loan, so that the rate will go up wayyyy past what I can afford and I can be foreclosed on. That would really make me day! Thanks”
Proud Homeowner:
“What planet has contracts that say “pay me until shit happens at which time I renegotiate more favorable terms for you.”
Oh, that’s Planet Big Business. You mean you’ve never been? I hear it’s faaaaabulous! Why Enron had a big place there for a while, and hmmm, let’s see, WorldCom, Aldephi, there’s so many others!
They all filed B A N K R U P T C Y — and they did so to RESTRUCTURE THEIR DEBTS — and their lawyers made a shit load of money and they emerged from bankruptcy having gotten away with NOT PAYING a lot of what they owed, to their shareholders, for one.
Which of course, was the purpose.
JacMac,
Regarding post #27, I don’t think it is fair to call Jim a racist based upon his post #18. I didn’t see him say anything along the line of “this group should not have received loans because they’re all evil and stupid.” Calling someone a racist because they are discussing issues involving race is counterproductive to good discussion.
You asked “Are you suggesting the lenders could not have created a responsible lending product that could have afforded Hispanics and African-Americans the opportunity to own a home…” My answer is that there were pre-existing, responsible products that could allow some individuals to afford houses. Individuals buy houses, not groups. Your question also implies that you would support special mortgages for which whites need not apply. I’m guessing that was not your intention.
Some groups are disadvantaged financially and that is wrong. But pressure was put on the lenders to fix it, and that proved wrong too. Since some people couldn’t afford houses using tried and tested means, Mozilo of Countrywide created untried and untested loans. Mozilo wrapped himself in the cloak of social welfare the same as the advocate groups Jim mentioned.
I don’t believe the advocate groups are a major player in the blame game. They may have lit a spark by pushing the idea of subprime lending, but it was greed that really got the fire burning.
Another great debate at LoanWorkout.org!
The point I was trying to make is that what sense is it for a homeowner to call his lender or go to one of these forums to look at their loan. Many of these loans are so fraudulent. I see it every damn day.
So, when these people go to theor lender and they were scammed royally, is the lender going to say you need and attorney right away and rescind this loan and sue us for damages. NO. They are going to get bad advice and not be told the truth.
We all know that. So, that is my blog post. Get them out of the picture and get a buffer in there and protect those who have been scammed. Many of these loans are illegal and they need to be identified. Not all, but as much as we can.
That is all.
I am responding to the first two individuals who left those insensitive and comments, Anne and Joe: I don’t even believe you are two real people without another agenda of some sort. Maybe you worked once as a broker, or are married to a mortgage lender, or maybe you aren’t real and someone else wrote those rude comments just to get a debate going, whatever the case, I think you would benefit from an additional perspective. I too was duped into refinancing into a high cost loan. I won’t bother with all the details of the duping, but getting straight to the facts, as of right now, both the independent broker and the original lender he worked with to originate my loan have since had their respective licenses revoked by the state, and the lender by all the states. Each of them is separately undergoing their own criminal investigations into various charges such as: fraud, forgery, perjury, burglary, etc. and the lender declared bankruptcy. They had sold my loan within the first month to another unnamed entity they have yet to fully disclose. My payment was immediately double the amount I had been paying before to live in the same house. The loan proceeds I took out had to go directly toward the higher payment since my payment now exceeded my income. I kept up until a few months after that ran out, only to encounter my first “adjustment” where my payment increased by almost $500-. It was already $3800-. Then I realized that it would be changing again in 6 months by the same amount, and then again 6 months after that. I am in foreclosure now, and after months of requesting debt validation documents from my “loan servicer” they finally replied. To validate this debt, they sent me a stack of papers that contained more obviously forged signatures than real ones. I know what you’re thinking, sue them right? Amazingly, the two attorneys I’ve met with thus far have suggested I just do a short sale and walk away, after 9 years, and prior to this always knowing I had at least several hundred thousand dollars in equity – and now the best advice is to walk away based on a stack of lies? Anne ? Joe? Do you have any better advice for me or for the individual who wrote this than to seek help from our government, maybe even an expectation of justice? I dont want a handout from anyone. Who ever said that? I just thought, prior to this, that justice applied to all of us, even “lenders”. This isn’t the America I know. Something is wrong with this country. I am being robbed, swindled out of my life savings, and all I’m hearing, even from Average Anne and clock-punch Joe is the “you shouldnt have been stupid” line of reasoning. On the same line of reasoning, does that mean it is now legal to defraud anyone out of anything so long as they don’t become aware of it until later? Do we get what we deserve for being dumb enough to trust a state licensed mortgage professional?
Is good faith and trust totally gone in this country?
Moe: “So, when these people go to theor lender and they were scammed royally, is the lender going to say you need and attorney right away and rescind this loan and sue us for damages. NO. They are going to get bad advice and not be told the truth.
We all know that. So, that is my blog post. Get them out of the picture and get a buffer in there and protect those who have been scammed. Many of these loans are illegal and they need to be identified. Not all, but as much as we can.”
I absolutely agree.
Al:
Racism: Rac·ism /ˈreɪsɪzəm/
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior, IS DESERVING OF SPECIAL, PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
I’m not sure what your reference to “evil or stupid” means and the rest of your post makes little to no sense to me, especially what you say I’m implying — which is dead wrong.
I don’t imply, I just say what I mean.
And what I said was clear.
Jim stated the ACORN should possibly be blamed for the mortgage crisis because ACORN “advocated banks to lend to all of the community, and not those which actual (had) money or good credit.”
The comment suggests that money should NOT be lent to “all of the community”, THAT some people should be excluded.
Since ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is the nation’s largest community organization of low and moderate-income families AND since historicalLY people of color in
America (as a group) often fall into those categories . . .
The comment was racist.
JacMac, I’ll try again.
Previous lending policies were designed not to be racist. They looked at ability to pay regardless of ethnic background. The unintended result of these policies were to give less loans to minority groups who tended to be less affluent. Groups like ACORN took this to mean that the policy was racist. The solution was to lower lending standards, again equally based upon means and not race. As we’ve seen, this has not worked out at all.
Jim was simply pointing this out. That a lending system that wasn’t intended to be racist did disriminate against minorities. At no point did Jim say that banks shouldn’t lend to anyone of a certain ethnic background. ACORN pushed for something, they got what they wanted, and it proved wrong.
Your line, “The comment suggests that money should NOT be lent to “all of the community”, THAT some people should be excluded.” Some people should be exclued. Those that can’t pay it back, regardless of ethnic background.
Your line, “Since ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is the nation’s largest community organization of low and moderate-income families AND since historicalLY people of color in
America (as a group) often fall into those categories . . .” Look how many words you had to put in Jim’s mouth to make him a racist. ACORN is not flawless. Pointing out such a flaw does not a racist make.
Your line, “I don’t imply, I just say what I mean.” Was that a response to my statement “Your question also implies that you would support special mortgages for which whites need not apply.”? If so, then you are a racist, as you are advocating a policy that descriminates based upon ethnic background.
Al, I cannot begin to imagine how you are able to speak to what Jim intended or meant unless YOU ARE HIM?
Are you Jim?
If not, I suggest you let Jim speak for himself.
I won’t even respond to your accusation that I am a racist. Obviously, you have a reason for ascribing motives and reasoning to what I am saying rather than asking me, which would be really simple.
My position is this:
America is a country that has committed terrible atrocities and advocated and operated under a racist system that has discriminated and caused terrible ramnifications for many ethnic groups, generation after generation over the years.
Because this is an OBVIOUS REALITY — that many ethnic groups are STILL suffering the results of he far reaching effects of the racial inequality and discrimnatory systems that were in place in America for sooooooo long, there is a VERY REAL NEED to create new policies to LEVEL THE PLAYING FEILD, undo the HARM that was done to these ethnic groups and creat opportunities for them that will allow them to RISE ABOVE the road blocks that were stacked against them.
Thus the NEED for groups like ACORN and the like.
It is because there is real resistance to speaking of this very clear reality that an honest conversation about racism and the effects there of can never be had : Now that’s my opinion.
Those who have benefitted from the racist system, do not want to acknowledge that benefit, and do not want to admit that others are suffering as a result of the system. Furthermore, they certainly don’t want to do anything about it.
Once the playing field is level, and racism no longer exists (and operates) in America, so that all of it’s citizens are treated fairly then there will be NO NEED for these groups and this type of remedies.
I’m done here because you are speaking for Jim in this matter which shows me that you have some kind of agenda which you haven’t copped to.
I addressed the response specifically to Jim.
Let Jim speak for himself.
Also, Al this is to you, personally
Please do research or where many predatory lenders concentrated their efforts to peddle the toxic ARM loans that they sold, and who they sold them to.
Please open your mind to realize understand who fell amongst the vunerable and fell prey to the scam that’s been perpetrated on the American people.
Please try and realize that the financial inability to afford a home has a long history, dating back for many, many people to the free labor that was given to build the American economy by many who never received compensation for their hard work, was unable to pass on wealth to their children, who then were unable to further their education and create opportunities for themselves and their families.
Please look at the bigger picture.
JacMac,
Would you go up to a financially disadvantaged white person and say to them that living in poverty is wrong, but it’s okay for you.
That is what you are saying.
I believe that ACORN should exist, but they can make mistakes.
I believe that many INDIVIDUALS are suffering of all backgrounds, and that they need help.
I believe that racist policies, no matter what their intent, breeds racism.
I believe that many wrongs have been done in the past, but committing new wrongs does not fix them.
I am not Jim, nor do I know Jim
I am defending Jim because based upon his post, I think you unfairly called him a racist.
Your line, “Obviously, you have a reason for ascribing motives….” What is your reason for ascribing motives to Jim? I don’t really think you are racist, but I can easily interpret your words in a way that shows you are. The same way you did to Jim.
“JacMac,
Would you go up to a financially disadvantaged white person and say to them that living in poverty is wrong, but it’s okay for you.
That is what you are saying.”
Al, you don’t know what I’m saying, that’s clear — it’s also clear that you are not at all interested in finding out. That’s okay. It’s a typical reaction to this touchy subject, the reason why things in America have not and will not change under the surface.
Excellent article. Sad and disheartening but thanks Moe, for keeping us informed!
Oh my goodness I think I’m going to be sick. Moe, you have just posted an article about a conman who lost his real estate license over ten years ago, spent time in prison and is now scamming homeowners. I cant believe you have the balls to entitle the article “Brokers and Real estate Agents are now scamming home-owners in foreclosure”. WTF!?!?!
You know the big problem with the “main stream” media is that they just can\’e2\’80\’99t seem to be able to tell a story the way it really happened. There always has to be a slant to the story so that the \’e2\’80\’9csheeple\’e2\’80\’9d will buy the newspaper or not turn the channel for fear of actually learning something.
This is the very reason I like blogs and articles on the net, they tend to be a little more “bull-shitless”. However, I do run across a site every once and a while who’s author is more interested in shock value than actually getting the truth out and it saddens me to have to tell you this but Moe; Your readers are now a little dumber for having read this article…. shame on you!
Have some standards man! Get good, real stories and keep the bull-shit out!
This article is about scams and con-men (con-persons
P) and that\’e2\’80\’99s ok….its ok. There may be someone who is considering something like this and reading your article would help prevent them from making another mistake. Moe, there is no need to smear Licensed professionals in the process especially those with a fiduciary duty like Realtors.
I cant believe I actually feel let down by you\’e2\’80\’a6.
Oh and JacMac\’e2\’80\’a6stop kissing Moe\’e2\’80\’99s ass\’e2\’80\’a6you\’e2\’80\’99re smarter than that. \’e2\’80\’9cExcellent article. Sad and disheartening but thanks Moe, for keeping us informed!\’e2\’80\’9d \’e2\’80\’a6Woman please.
I\’e2\’80\’99m going to throw-up
CTAN
“LAST WEEK I got a call from a woman in San Bernardino that hired the same \’e2\’80\’9dagent\’e2\’80\’9d that sold her property to her and handled all her mortgage needs over the years. She paid this \’e2\’80\’9cagent\’e2\’80\’9d, $3,000 so her credit would not be damaged during the foreclosure process and so that she could \’e2\’80\’9cbuy\’e2\’80\’9d another home instead of rent.
Yes, you heard this right. Somehow this \’e2\’80\’9cagent\’e2\’80\’9d was going to \’e2\’80\’9cmagically\’e2\’80\’9d protect her credit during the foreclosure process and sell her another home once this home foreclosure on her. This San Bernardino homeowner bought this BS, like she has bought everything this \’e2\’80\’9cagent\’e2\’80\’9d has sold her for the last 10 years.
After I got off the phone, I did a quick Google search AND DISCOVERED THAT THIS AGENT IN FACT IS NOT AN AGENT AND HIS LICENSE WAS REVOKED FOR FRAUD IN 1996 AND WAS INCARCERATED IN FEDERAL PRISON FROM 1996-1998.
I called her back and let her know what I found . . . . her mortgage had multiple Truth in Lending Act violations, RESPA and fraud. She has noW retained a lawyer on contigency and may save her home \’e2\’80\’9clegally\’e2\’80\’9d and \’e2\’80\’9csafely\’e2\’80\’9d.
I never got her $3,000 back and this man has reportedly skipped Down south LAST WEEK to Mexico after it was found out that he scammed over 100 homeowners and is a \’e2\’80\’9cwanted\’e2\’80\’9d man by the FBI.”
CTAN, Moe is talking about something that happened LAST WEEK.
Reading is fundamental — get hooked on phonics.
Im still reading all the posts but I just had to comment on this remark by Moe
“Of course these responses are coming from the mortgage industry veterans. Wow, what a surprise, yawn………..”
Well I had to laugh at that….Moe…Of course that’s the response that you get from the posters who actually know what the Hell they are talking about. The rest of you are the sheep who are still trying to discern the difference between a 2/28 and a POA.
The truly amazing thing is that, one would think that readers of this forum would be seeking the truth and would value what a “Mortgage Veteran” would have to say, taken with a grain of salt perhaps but the value is still there.
But no…instead I see a bunch of imbecilic banter….the sheep telling the lions how they got slaughtered. Sooo laughable, you should see it from my eyes.
The closest example I can think of is when my youngest boy goes on and on about how he believes the world to work and I just smile to my self and say “Is that how that works sweetheart?”
And then you get insulting and I just want to laugh and open the top of your head like a garbage can and pour knowledge in, knowing that as soon as you understand you will shut-up.
But then I just sigh, secretly knowing that I’m typing out a post that will be read by those in the business…….. and the willfully ignorant.
CTAN
Yes JacMac I understand that this happened last week. However it has nothing to do with a Real Estate agent it is a story about a conman who once was licensed a long time ago before he went to prison and has just recently been swindling homeowners POSING as a Realtor.
Reading is fundamental \’e2\’80\rdblquote get hooked on phonics.
LOL your just pissed because I caught you kissin Moe’s butt.
See Moe I told you….you’re dumbing them down man. JacMac read the headline and never could understand that the article wasnt about Realtors.
Many brokers are doing this. Well documented.
Really Stephen? Like who ? Can you give me an example? I’m a wholesale account rep. I talk to many brokers every day and I can\’e2\’80\’99t tell you of one who would do this. Additionally, I was only taking exception to Realtors as they are the ones with Agency relationships and can be sued for damn near anything.
Can you give me some \’e2\’80\’9cwell documented\’e2\’80\’9d examples or are you just repeating what you have heard others say.
Stephan, aren\’e2\’80\’99t you really just perpetuating a lie?
Do you have any real life experience in this venue as I do?
Stephen there are literally THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of Mortgage Brokers operating in this country, over one hundred in my town of less than a million people. You said-
\’e2\’80\’9cMany brokers are doing this. Well documented.\’e2\’80\’9d
Many\’e2\’80\’a6Stephen? Like how many\’e2\’80\’a6.ten thousand? No? Only a thousand perhaps? A hundred? Stephen can you give me ten \’e2\’80\’9cWell documented\’e2\’80\’9d examples of licensed Mortgage Brokers who are taking say three thousand dollars from their borrowers, promising to sell them a home after the current lender forecloses?
Honestly I would be impressed if you could give me even a single well-documented example of this happening. Stephen\’e2\’80\’a6Mortgage Brokers don\’e2\’80\’99t sell homes and \’e2\’80\’9cone\’e2\’80\’9d is not \’e2\’80\’9cmany\’e2\’80\’9d neither is \’e2\’80\’9cten\’e2\’80\’9d or even a hundred.
Judging by what I have seen of your earlier posts I would say you got burned and you hate us, but Stephan\’e2\’80\’a6..its okay and I don\’e2\’80\’99t care what you think of me. Much to your dismay I\’e2\’80\’99m sure, I can promises you I will not go to prison over any of this nor do I lose a wink of sleep over any loan I have ever made.
Personally, I will still make loans to people like yourself, I will fight for your loan and I will fight for your circumstance but I will admit to you this\’e2\’80\’a6.I\’e2\’80\’99m starting to not like you either.
Pay cash next time, see if I care.
JacMac,
Here’s the big picture for you. When it comes to poverty, whites are disproportinately under-represented. This means that any program designed to help people in poverty will descriminate against whites. I have no problem with this. It will help to level the playing field, a goal we both agree on. I just don’t believe that overtly racist policies are required.
Now I’ll paraphrase you’re last paragraph back to you. You clearly do not want to see that racism is racism, no matter who it is leveled against. It’s okay. It’s a typical reaction to this touchy subject, the reason racism will continue to flourish and will remain buried under the surface.
Wow, how come my post about MHL Pro, Inc. was deleted. Hey Moe, don’t want anyone to know you own a mortage business that advertises -
“We have great manufactured home loan refinance programs for consumers and brokers. Bad credit, good credit, stated income, self employed, NO PROBLEM!”
“Can you give me an example?”
“Can you give me some \’e2\’80\’9cwell documented\’e2\’80\’9d examples”
“can you give me ten \’e2\’80\’9cWell documented\’e2\’80\’9d examples”
“Honestly I would be impressed if you could give me even a single well-documented example of this happening. Stephen\’e2\’80\’a6Mortgage Brokers don\’e2\’80\’99t sell homes and \’e2\’80\’9cone\’e2\’80\’9d is not \’e2\’80\’9cmany\’e2\’80\’9d neither is \’e2\’80\’9cten\’e2\’80\’9d or even a hundred.
CTAN, first you wanted an example, then a WELL DOCUMENTED example and then TEN WELL DOCUMENTED EXAMPLES, and then you minimized the worth of your requests by stating that one is not many and ten is not a hundred.
First of all, this is narcissism at it’s best. Who the hell is trying to impress YOU?
It’s not all about you!
No. 2, you’ve given us another example of the arrogant callousness of your peer group — one may not be many in your mind or whatever number you’d need it to be for it to count, but it DAMN SURE MATTERS!!!
Al, or should I call you Ward Connolly, please just quit while you’re ahead. You keep putting words in my mouth, restating what I’m saying instead of trying to understand me.
Your definition of racism is skewed.
Repairative measures to UNDO the harm of racism is NOT RACISM. But it seems you and those who think like you are invested in not understanding this.
The core definition of racism is, “The systematic subordination of members of targeted racial groups who have relatively little social power in the United States (Blacks, Latino/as, Native Americans, and Asians), by the members of the agent racial group who have relatively more social power (Whites). The subordination is supported by the actions of individuals, cultural norms and values, and the institutional structures and practices of society.”
By this definition, it is impossible to commit an act of racism against a white person.
I’m confident that none of this will have any effect on your thinking whatsoever.
Jacmac
Stephen made a statement that many brokers are doing this, and that it is well documented. I was only asking him to support his claim and yes I was being a smart ass. Stephen seems to be speaking from a position of authority and I would like to know were he gets his facts. If he has no facts or is unwilling to provide them then he should STFU.
As far as why should somebody have to impress me? That was sarcasm, as if you needed to be told that. I think Stephen is talking right out of his ass and I would be surprised if he could provide even one example to back up his claims.
One example, by its very definition, is not many. Does one matter…yes that is what we have prisons for, but its still just one. (One example that apparently doesn\’e2\’80\’99t even exist)
Stephen said “many” I was simply asking for clarification of what many means to Stephen. Based on the fact that there are THOUSANDS of honest brokers doing business in this country, I am making the assertion that many is a relative figure.
Just my opinion but I believe you are reading so many posts that your not even paying attention to what is being said. Everything that you have flamed me for in this article could be answered by simply reading the whole way though the first time.
You think I\’e2\’80\’99m callous? Fine. But I have forgotten more about this business than you will ever know. You don\’e2\’80\’99t want to listen? Fine. Continue in you willful ignorance.
CTAN:
Here is a link to a story re: this type of fraud being perpetrated against homeowners across the country:
http://www.realestatejournal.com/buysell/mortgages/20061129-wei.html
Your posts are typically intelligent and well thought out but it appears that this type of thing is happening everywhere
JacMac
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races.
The Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.
The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism thus: the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others.
According to UN International Conventions, “the term “racial discrimination” shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.” This definition does not make any difference between prosecutions based on ethnicity and race, in part because the distinction between the ethnicity and race remains debatable among anthropologists.
From ACORN’s website, “From the beginning, when it brought together Black and white, welfare and working poor, ACORN defied expectations of what a community organization could be. It pioneered multi- racial and multi-issue organizing, led the way in electoral organizing, and branched into innovative housing development, community media and labor organizing.”
ACORN gets it.
Virginia
Thank you that was refreshing and I almost thought I would, once again, be publicly admitting an error in my thinking (almost
P).
I do not challenge the idea that this type of thing is happening, considering the sheer numbers of desperate people in this country who are about to lose their homes, this type of scam job is certain to run amuck.
However, my original position is that Moe posted an article about a con man who POSED as a Realtor and named it “Brokers & Real Estate Agents are Now Scamming Homeowners in Foreclosure”. The article had nothing to do with a Broker or a Realtor and I was simply scolding Moe and challenging him to uphold a higher standard that that which is currently being displayed in the main stream media…….. ok…. and I said JacMac was kissing Moe’s butt, but that was all I had to say.
Then Stephan came trolling by and gave us his “peanut gallery” opinion, which was completely baseless, and I simply felt like ripping into him for being a tool. Ok fine I’m an ass I admit it, I should have behaved more like an adult and not verbally lashed someone who obviously has the mind of an eight year old….jeeze I feel bad now.
Then like a welcome breath of fresh air Virginia breezes in with some actual content of all things (imagine that) but alas it says nothing in the article about Mortgage brokers or Realtors which brings me back to my original point….
“Moe; Your readers are now a little dumber for having read this article\’e2\’80\’a6. shame on you!”
CTAN
Soooo Anyway…..
CTAN, I’m with you finally.
So anyway it right. Let’s get back to the topic of this thread, I’m so done discussing this with you know who.
My appologies if I dragged on this off-topic line too long, but I do feel very strongly that all people should be treated equally regardless of skin color, ethnic background or religion. There. I’m done.
With all that said, let me offer a solution to those who are being approach from companies or individuals with credit savings techniques; Contact the governing body of your state’s financial institution. There should be a list of any legit company that performs those types of services. It would be great to report them to the authorities but even better post who, where and what they are attempting to do on sites like this. Accurate information is key to stop scammers like this.
CTAN
I felt the last few paragraphs of the article were relevant, although it did not say the perpetrators were specifically realtors or brokers…I believe that unscrupulous realtors and brokers would or could or are committing the fraud against the already hard hit homeowners…..
If the scammers are stopped in one way, they will always try to find another. I think Chris’s idea is brilliant. Always verify that the person/company you are doing business with is legitimate and in good standing with the regulating authority that oversees them….and ALWAYS, ALWAYS report fraud. It is the only way to stop these guys……
California is plenty of Mortgage and Real Estate Broker who charge from $1500,00 to $4,500 dollars to do a loan modification, without any guaranties.
LET ME BE PERFECTLY CLEAR WITH YOU!
First let say I feel your frustration, I’m experiencing my own mortgage crisis.
Listen many factors created this mess with the mortgage crisis, each entity should hold themselves accountable for their actions (lenders, appraisers, real estate agents, mortgage brokers, and consumers) its easy to point fingers and put blame everywhere else. Take a moment and reflect, what was your part in this? What could you have done on your part before signing the document? The only person you can control in any transaction is you…take a minute and reverse the roles and lets say you are the person who lends money to people in fact you are lending other peoples money to people. You have to pay those people back after all they are investing in your business. So what do you do? You get there money back or take the collateral (the house). You see what I’m saying. Therefore, If you have stopped paying on your mortgage for whatever reason then you are in breach of contract, you have forfieted your rights to your home and the bank has every right to take the house because it is collateral for the money they lent to you, do not get that twisted.
Now, with this whole modification issue educate yourself do your due diligence learn what it is you can do to increase you chances at saving your home. I promise you there are many companies scamming the homeowners who are desperately seeking help.
Whew! That is a mouth full. Listen doing a home loan modification is simple. Yes, it can be a bit time consuming in some cases. What we have seen is the average modification takes 4-6 months. Keep in mind you are at the lenders discretion so you have to be patient and package you proposal for a modification in a way that makes sense to them to accept the offer. Treat this as a business deal because you are asking to change some, if not many of the terms of a previous contract, and really, it is in the way you present it. Let me clarify, this is a business and the proposal has to make business sense to the lender. If it doesn’t than taking the house is there only option.
It sucks to be in this predicament, but hey we had our part in making this mess!
In response to David’s April 2009 post…It certainly does suck to be in this position. My husband & I needed a tax break and instead of having children, bought our home in 1993 for $168,000.00 @ 8% when we were both employed full time. We refinanced twice over the next 15 years and it is now $180,000.00 @6% fixed rate. Sounds good until you throw into the mix that I became disabled in 2000 and my husband was off work for 8 months (which wiped out our “safety net nest egg”). We were still holding our own though until the first part of 2008 when my husband became ill and then subsequently passed away in April 2008. Unfortunatley, we had less than adaquate insurance and so now there are Medical bills in excess of $200,000.00 So, here I am, living in the place I have lived in longer than anywhere else at anytime in my life. (BTW I will be 53 next month) Between my disablity payment and my survivor benefit from Social Security I bring in $1,415.00. With my mortgage payment being $1,425.00, I’ve had to take in two boarders just to make ends meet. There is no way I can pay the medical bills AND keep my house. I have opted to keep the house as long as I live. I have no one to leave it to in a will so I figure, if I can get my mortgage payment down to a manageable amount and continue paying my other monthly bills, I will, at least, have a place to live. When I am gone, the doctors and hospitals can all fight over it to collect on the leins they will undoubtedly put on the house. Whether my mortgage payment is $400.00 or $1400.00 a month, I do not anticipate the loan EVER being paid off to the banks satisfaction. However, over the years, they have been paid in excess of $280,000.00 so far. Not too bad for a $168,000.00 initial loan amount. If a loan modification can help me at all and do a better job then a regular re-finance… then count me in!! Anyway, some people are going to consider me a bitch for thinking this way. Others may think me pathetic. I don’t care…as long as I don’t have to pack up and move out. It really does suck, doesn’t it???