Mamyrah Prosper steps gingerly over ankle-high grass strewn with plastic bags and empty soda bottles in the yard of a vacant redbrick house in Miami’s Liberty City. She peers through a gap in a boarded-up window. “It looks in good shape,” she says. “I mean, the walls aren’t falling down. This is definitely one of our stronger options.
“Prosper means that if the place checks out, she and her colleagues from Take Back the Land, a local group that advocates for affordable housing, will break in, change the locks, paint and clean, innovate a way to connect water and electricity, and then move a homeless family into the house. The criminal laws they’ll violate in the process range from trespassing to breaking and entering (even burglary, if the police get ambitious), which requires the organization to keep a pro bono lawyer on standby.
No Responses
Hey Christina, Carrie, and Trish… Please check out http://www.loansafe.org. I believe you both can recieve the support and empowerment to save your homes.
Posted on June 3rd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Dear Mr Bedard.
How can I adequately express to you the gratitude I feel for you creating this website? Words fail me. But please know you are a hero in my book for taking the time to care and for having a kind and compassionate heart.
Those of us facing the ugliness of foreclosure already feel embarrassed, defeated and isolated. I wish I had found this website earlier. I’m sure it would have at the very least let me know I was not alone in such a pickle.
It is incredibly frightening; facing such an uncertain future where before, I pretty much had the rest of my life planned out.
I honestly don’t know what the future holds for me or where I will find myself a year from now. But I can tell you there will be a special place in heaven for you, Mr. Bedard. A very special place indeed. I believe this with my whole heart!!
I am happy my post was able to provide an example for you to show what your site means to you. And I meant every word I wrote to Tricia and Carrie. Girls, if you’re out there and reading, let’s lean on each other, work with each other and guide ourselves out of this sticky wicket.
I will go check out the referral website loansafe.org and I hope to learn new strategies as I prepare to deal with Countrywide head-on after my first missed house payment later this month.
Wish me luck, Mr. Bedard.
And thank you again a million times over for this godsend of a website!!
All My Best,
Christina
Posted on June 4th, 2008 at 2:15 am
Hello Christina, I’m sorry to hear of your situation. My only suggestion is to go and get a modest apartment while your credit is still good, and stay there to ride this out. I’m going to be blunt, no matter what you try to do with your house and Countrywide your credit will be shot. Best thing is to walk away. You are not alone, please do not feel bad or ashame. I use to work in the credit verifying department of Countrywide. I’m sorry to hear the people were rude to you. 2 years ago we were not allowed to behave like that. Yes, the phone conversation is suppose to be recorded and audited. Remember one thing, the older the deliquency on the credit report become the better your FICO score will improve…credit is not everything, it can be fix..please don’t apologize and take the blame. Divorces & jobloss is something out of your control….I’ll be praying for you, Claire
Posted on June 4th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
FYI-mtg companies will not work with you. My friend tried negoiating, they told her to “if you can’t afford it, then let it foreclose.” This is Chase Mtg guys…
Posted on June 4th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Christina & Claire …
I checked out loansafe.org it is AWESOME !!!!
we are not alone at all.
There are still good people out there helping one another, even if the banks & Angelo Mozillo’s (GOdzillos) of the world turn their back on us.
I have had a horrible experience with Countrywide, I still have to wait until August for the loan modification if that ever happens, and even if they freeze your account due to the loan modification, you can still pay your loan through checkfree.com. \{ i learned that at loansafe.org\} tell them your story and you will see how many others are in similar situations across the states.
MOE BEDARD It has been a blessing for me & my family to have found your website…. You kick ass in so many ways !
I am grateful you allow everyone to express their thoughts & experiences!
There are so many things that have caused us to get to this place, the Bush admin, the greedy banks (CountryWide for one), the Realtors, the Loan Officers, the Mortgage Brokers, the Title companies, the Appraisals, it was all a chain, those that looked the other way & knew they were doing wrong will pay sooner or later - some are already paying by parking cars or flipping burgers. Not all in the industry were bad, but for those few good people, the rest of them have done them in.
I am hoping for Solutions - hoping to save my home & my families sanity… Children need to know that they are loved and we need to provide that + shelter, & food.
God Bless you all ! we are not alone ! in Unity we find strength. Thanks again Moe for allowing all of us to find each other !
Sincerely,
Carrie
Miami, FL
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 8:05 am
Carie,
You don’t know how much I apreciate the kind words you have said here. It humbles me to keep fighting the good fight and together we can make this happen.
I am glad you found LoanSafe.org and hope to see you more around here. You seem to be someone who we would love to have has a regular member and voice for the people suffering in their homes.
I wish you the best and God bless Carrie! You rock!!!!!
Sincereley and Respectfully,
Moe Bedard
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Tricia, Christina, Carrie
We’re a Loan Modification Co. we have an attorney that is involved in all the legal aspects of the modifications we work on. We’re very good and have done well for our clients. Now, bar that we have a situation where we can’t do a modification for a client but we negotiate with her lender for a short sale and then put her into another house. This is the situation I was thinking about for you Christina. Hopefully this gives you an idea or give us a call 866-876-1400 ask for Johnny Loss Mitigation Dept.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Carrie on Jun 5th, 2008 at 8:05 am
Christina & Claire \’e2\’80\’a6
I checked out loansafe.org it is AWESOME !!!!
we are not alone at all.
There are still good people out there helping one another, even if the banks & Angelo Mozillo\’e2\’80\’99s (GOdzillos) of the world turn their back on us.
. . .
There are so many things that have caused us to get to this place, the Bush admin, the greedy banks (CountryWide for one), the Realtors, the Loan Officers, the Mortgage Brokers, the Title companies, the Appraisals, it was all a chain, those that looked the other way & knew they were doing wrong will pay sooner or later -
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! You forgot to blame the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker.
For Chirst’s sake, was the home worth the price you negotiated? Do you still like your home that you live in?
If yes, make the payments. If no, move so someone else can make some payments.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Hey GOLAKERS the butcher, the baker & the candlestick maker are out of a job because we can’t keep buying their goods and the economy is all but F**ked and we are on a downward spiral into recession…
and i did not blame them because they have nothing to do with the housing market, mortgage industry or the economy.
yes i love my home, & that is why I am trying to negotiate a loan mod …
have a wonderful evening ! & i want the Lakers to win also.
even though you keep kicking me while I am down no prob…
if you were the one going through the hardship I wouldn’t be kicking you I’d be offering my hand to help you up !
Posted on June 7th, 2008 at 12:28 am
in response to GOLakers glad to see you remember a nursery rhyme great job but who the hell is going to be able to move in & continue to make payments, in todays economic state. as you stated in your last sentence.
hmmm oh yeah all those rich f^^^ers who took advantage of the working class.
wake up and smell the reality this will just be another property in the banks foreclosure and will probably be vacant for years because they didn’t want to help the original homeowner.
I say F^^K the banks if they do not want to help people.
another blogger stated they should just live there mtg free until they are kicked out. AND I’ll add to take the blinds you paid for, the fans, the lighting the crown molding, the drapes, the flooring, the appliances that you paid for and have the bank pay for them since the bank wants to keep your house they can have it in the same state you purchased it, since the market keeps crashing & property values keep dropping due to the # of foreclosures in peoples neighborhoods.
Posted on June 7th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Hello Moe,
Is there a way that I can contact you privately without posting on the site.
I have been asking certain questions to people and am very interested in helping people like the obligors who have posted on your site. You can’t believe how many people or in this situation.
I’ll send you something I’ve sent to my attorney. I am trying to research a way to help people who have filed Chapter 13 and am working with a bankruptcy attorney who would like to use TILA for his clients. He’s says 100% of them filed to save their homes.
Here it is:
Hi Matt,
Okay, I got some answers to some questions I had–not all of the ones I posited to you but others.
Since my current mortgage/lien holder (Select Portfolio) has to assume all liability, then the loan wouldn’t revert to New Century but to the loan holder before that (Homestar–not sure if they’re still around).
So, there are a few questions that still need to be answered–however, no one seems to really know the answers.
1) Who owns the loan once it’s rescinded?
According to information I’ve found, some have stated that the current mortgagor must be paid back in money or property–only after, however, all monies have been returned. They have 20 days to return the all funds paid in associated with the loan (and according to some, attorney’s fees as well). I would assume that damages of $2000 a violation (per the fed court) would also have to be factored in.
Others say that the loan is gone like it never existed and reverts back to the loan the obligor had before the current loan had been enacted. Now, since the old lender has been paid off, it appears that procedurally the obligor owes the current creditor, less the paid in amounts, interest, loan fees, etc. But technically, the loan reverts back to the old lender. So, who owns the loan?
If the rescinded loan becomes unsecured debt, which is does, then it can be discharged in bankruptcy.
Or, the loan could go back to the old lender who would then have to pay back the money. I think that they would loathe to do that.
So, it’s possible to have both lenders going at each other like piranhas until the water clears. That would be an interesting case, indeed. But I think that it would take years.
Here’s TILA:
(b) Return of money or property following rescission
When an obligor exercises his right to rescind under subsection (a) of this section, he is not liable for any finance or other charge, and any security interest given by the obligor, including any such interest arising by operation of law, becomes void upon such a rescission. Within 20 days after receipt of a notice of rescission, the creditor shall return to the obligor any money or property given as earnest money, downpayment, or otherwise, and shall take any action necessary or appropriate to reflect the termination of any security interest created under the transaction. If the creditor has delivered any property to the obligor, the obligor may retain possession of it. Upon the performance of the creditor?s obligations under this section, the obligor shall tender the property to the creditor, except that if return of the property in kind would be impracticable or inequitable, the obligor shall tender its reasonable value. Tender shall be made at the location of the property or at the residence of the obligor, at the option of the obligor. If the creditor does not take possession of the property within 20 days after tender by the obligor, ownership of the property vests in the obligor without obligation on his part to pay for it. The procedures prescribed by this subsection shall apply except when otherwise ordered by a court.********************************
I think that the key sentence here is “Upon the performance of the creditor?s obligations under this section, the obligor shall tender the property to the creditor, except that if return of the property in kind would be impracticable or inequitable, the obligor shall tender its reasonable value.”
Since I’m in bankruptcy, it would be impractical & inequitable to tender the whole value. ‘Reasonable’ value comes into play–which can mean 10 cents on the dollar or not, depending on the dischargeability of the debt.
I think that there is also some ambiguity about –”If the creditor does not take possession of the property within 20 days after tender by the obligor, ownership of the property vests in the obligor without obligation on his part to pay for it.”
I believe that there is a case to be made that if the creditor does not give back all the money or at least provide a payoff notice deducting all monies associated with the loan, 20 days after deadline of the notice of rescission (which is 20 days) –”ownership of the property vests in the obligor without obligation on his part to pay for it.”
I do think that this clause can be interpreted that way, as, shall we say an ‘incentive’ for the creditor to not drag their feet and actually complete the rescission request. You have to wonder what the original intent behind that clause was—what would it be if not a severe penalty (losing loan and collateral) to the creditor for lack of action on the matter.
I also believe that for each and every request for rescission that is not implemented, there are damages of $2000 (as per fed court) a pop. So every 20 days a obligor can request rescission and rack up damages if there is no answer–each with accompanying attorney’s fees.
2) What happens when the bankruptcy debt discharge limit has been exceeded?
What happens to the debt to be discharged when it is over the limit? Or cumulatively over limit? That’s why I think the damages play a part here–the more TILA/RESPA et al violations, the more can be argued to be removed from the loan as the damages accrue–to the tune of $2000 a violation in fed court.
3) What are the time limits to respond to a creditor’s hearing? Can a creditor request extra time after the fact–even after being properly notified of a bankrupt obligor?
This is a crucial question as it will determine **when** to rescind a loan. If the creditor does not show up at the creditor’s hearing, there is a case to be made that any subsequent ‘objections’ are untimely. Imagine the can of worms a bankruptcy judge will open if they start extending creditor objections. I don’t know if that happens often, but I don’t think the bankruptcy trustees would be too keen on it.
So, if a bankrupt mortgagor had TILA violations, and rescinded after the creditor’s hearing there’s not a lot the creditor could do, I think, if they didn’t show to the hearing.
The IRS always seems to be there, so especially in this market, it seems plausible that the mortgagor should be, too.
My situation in bankruptcy dictates what I personally can do, but there are lots of alternatives for other obligors. If they don’t want to declare bankruptcy, then go the TILA violation route. If they are in bankruptcy, wait til after the creditor’s hearing (if the mortgagor is within the 3 year timeframe) and rescind. After 20-30 days, discharge the loan through the bankruptcy. This should even work with Chapter 7, though Ch 7 won’t stop the foreclosure, the rescission should.
After more research, I believe the best way to go is to do operate within the parameters of the bankruptcy court. There are stricter guidelines for timeliness and it’s less likely to drag on for years. Also, the creditor’s are a bit hobbled by the constraints of a bankruptcy court–less likely for nasty procedural tactics to be used as a defense strategy.
I’d like to have these questions answered, but here’s how I’d like to proceed.
a) I want to rescind the loan through certified mail. I’d also like a copy faxed from the law office.
b) I want to have removed immediately any portion of the SPS loan from the plan payments
c) If a trust account is deemed necessary, I want it based on the new loan total or what I would be paying at that total with the previous lender (I have the paperwork).
d) I want to notify the bk court that I’ve rescinded the loan.
Please let me know your thoughts–I’d like to move on this no later than mid-week next week. I’d do it tomorrow, actually.
Thanks for reading,
Lisa
After I wrote that, I thought of something else:
Just thought of something else—-
When one files a chapter 13, the trustee puts you on a payment plan. Interest and penalties stop accruing and the debt is paid off or at least a percentage of it is.
I believe that would pertain to the ‘unsecured’ mortgage debt after rescission in a bankruptcy. So, even if the debtor paid at 100%, the payments would be spread out in 60 payments and NO interest and NO penalties.
That’s seems to me to be just as good! Who needs a new loan if you can make the payments interest free thru Chapter 13?
Just throwing around some ideas…
Lisa
Moe, I’d love to get your feedback on this.
Posted on June 7th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
LISA,
what the hell are you saying here you lost me with the wording in your letter..
anyways : what your trying to say that it would be better for everyone to file bankruptcy (Cahpter13) have the debt removed/paid and you still keep you house & make payments interest free?
Posted on June 7th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I’m not suggesting that anyone file bankruptcy. It’s for those who are already in bankruptcy–and there are a lot already, trying to save their homes.
I’m saying that the snafu for most people is trying to get another loan. Even if people can rescind due to a TILA violation, it is becoming increasingly difficult to get another loan. Nearly impossible if you’ve filed Ch7 or Ch13.
But Chapter 13 creates a payment plan. If the leftover mortgage becomes unsecured–detached from the property–it can then be made a part of the payment plan. It solves the problem of getting a new loan.
Excuse the wording–I was hoping this would go to Moe before it posted–I thought that there might be an intermediary in the process.
Posted on June 8th, 2008 at 1:24 am
TO GOLAKERS:
It’s a strange thing that happens when people blame the victim. It almost always stems from a lack of understanding of the full situation. Allow me to educate you a bit.
TILA violations have been so rampant these last few years that they were almost ubiquitous. Do you know what TILA is? If you don’t, you’re not alone. Many attorneys do not know what TILA is or even know how to enforce it. In fact, even our possible president-to-be Obama is clearly ignorant of TILA’s existence—as evidenced on his website that he’d put in place protections and stricter disclosures. Guess what? That what TILA is!
So, you have lay people signing documents that are based on laws that even lawyers don’t understand, haven’t read or don’t know exist. What they are signing can only be fully understood by an understanding of what the documents are supposed to be based on. If you don’t know what that is, then you aren’t making an informed decision.
And guess what? That’s nearly all of us.
Posted on June 8th, 2008 at 1:37 am
Lisa,
i don’t know what a TILA is either. the only document I signed was the application and that was it.
well until i got to closing then i had hundreds of pages to sign.
Posted on June 8th, 2008 at 8:29 am
You are the face of our families losing their homes. My company negotiates with lenders to keep families in the home, instead of waling away, and putting a house on an already flooded depressed real estate market. If you are interested, but only if you want to stay. We son’t collect money up front and we don’t take control of your home. You remain in control the entire time. Save your money and stay smart. It sounds like you have done everything you can do. We are facing a nationwide epidemic that is only going to continue to spiral out of control until the lenders get a grip. They are slowly realizing throwing people out is not the answer.
Posted on June 10th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
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