Washington- Thank you and good morning. Let me first congratulate you on a timely and important meeting. I especially want to thank the President’s Advisory Council on Financial Literacy and the Subcommittee on the Underserved for organizing this meeting.
In particular I want to thank the subcommittee chair, John Hope Bryant, as well as Council members Sharon Lechter and Ignacio Salazar for their efforts to cast more attention on the underserved, and subcommittee member Rev. Dr. Robert Lee, who could not be with us today, for his efforts in this area. And I also want to thank you, our meeting participants, for agreeing to focus on this important work.
When John called me about the Subcommittee’s plans for today, he spoke about how today’s mortgage problems are a clear example of the need for financial literacy. I wholeheartedly agree. But what I especially liked about today’s meeting is your focus on the underserved and encouraging access to financial services to continue for credit-worthy Americans, even as we work through these challenging times in our financial markets.
Now let me turn to the main themes of today. We have seen financial innovation in the mortgage market. We have seen how that innovation benefits the U.S. economy and U.S. homeowners. Many Americans became homeowners because of these financial innovations.
Unfortunately many Americans do not have access to mainstream financial services. They lack the requisite understanding to utilize financial tools and products to manage their financial affairs properly. Additionally, as financial institutions revise their lending standards, some credit-worthy borrowers could find it more difficult to access the credit needed to finance their futures. As our markets move forward, they will need to find the right balance of improving their own lending practices, while not cutting off responsible, credit-worthy borrowers.
There are more financial products available now than ever, but these products have become more complex and challenging for all of us to understand. And as consumers, we need to know more than our parents or grandparents did, if we are going to employ these financial products successfully.
For the underserved, who by definition are not using many mainstream financial services, the barriers to understanding complex financial products are high. Many lenders do not clearly explain the terms of their complex loans and borrowers have infrequent or no experience with these products. These combined factors lead to a lack of participation, which continues a downward cycle for the underserved.
This creates an ongoing responsibility for us. We can see the true value of financial education by observing what happens when it is absent. In the last few years too many Americans either chose or were put into mortgages that were not appropriate for their financial positions. And without an adequate base of financial knowledge, too many consumers entered into loans that were difficult to understand. These trends were especially pronounced among subprime borrowers.
Avoiding preventable foreclosures is in the interest of all homeowners. We must reach homeowners who are struggling, reach them early, and reach them with information and hope. Although many mortgage industry leaders have stepped up their efforts to reach delinquent borrowers, too many distressed borrowers are still uncomfortable speaking to their lenders. This stems in large part from lack of financial education. In fact, we learned that 50 percent of foreclosures occur without borrowers ever talking to their lender or to a mortgage counselor.
We want distressed borrowers and lenders to work together and find a way to keep people in their homes. To do so we forged a coalition of mortgage servicers, counselors and investors that are working to avoid preventable foreclosures and to improve the functioning of the mortgage markets.
This, as you know, is our HOPE NOW initiative. Through this effort we are helping distressed borrowers by connecting them with mortgage counselors. To reach more Americans, HOPE NOW continues to broaden a public service announcement campaign, to spread the word that hope is only a phone call away.
We are also looking to the promise of financial education over the long-term. Financial education is preventative in nature. The best approach is to help people avoid difficult situations from the start.
By working with the type of private sector groups like the ones we have assembled here today, we can help Americans help themselves. More Americans can and should learn more about their money, and, in turn more about financial products.
A more financially literate consumer base – across all income levels and in prime and subprime markets alike – could have mitigated at least some of our current housing difficulties. Financial knowledge makes people better informed consumers. And when they understand the terms of a mortgage loan, they are better able to compare the costs and benefits of different products and they are better positioned to make long-term decisions that advance their financial goals.
With that in mind, and with an eye on the long-term view, the subcommittee will ask you today to consider what policy recommendations it should present to the President’s Council to address some of these challenges. In particular, the subcommittee will ask you to think about potential solutions to questions such as: How can we better identify and differentiate responsible and irresponsible subprime mortgage lending? What types of financial literacy initiatives are needed now to lessen the possibility of another round of turmoil in the subprime mortgage market? How can the private and public sectors deliver financial education programs directly to the subprime borrower? What should more effective disclosure from lenders look like? And what are some of the best ways we can capitalize on “teachable moments” to make sure this and other important lessons are taught? And, just as important, how can we measure success?
Through better disclosure from lenders, improved products for consumers, and increased financial education for borrowers, we can encourage a vibrant, mainstream marketplace for credit-worthy borrowers looking to finance an education, to experience the dream of responsible homeownership, and to have the opportunity to turn other lifetime goals into reality.
When it comes to educating the subprime borrower, there are ideal roles for lenders, servicers, regulators and other organizations to play. The questions you discuss today are important to the President. This discussion complements other work happening within the federal government, such as the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation’s upcoming conference on lending for low and moderate income families.
We recognize that financial literacy cannot immediately fix all our problems. But as I mentioned, it is part of the long-term solution. It is the preventative medicine that will help today’s underserved avoid tomorrow’s financial problems.
Thank you for lending the council subcommittee your time and your energy. You are part of a growing movement to create a more financially literate nation. Thank you.
No Responses
I am behind you Moe all the way - Mr. Mozillo & CountryWide is what is truly disgusting !!!!!!
still using manipulative tactics and BS language to confuse & control regular folks — that is f***ed up !!! they are corporate giants using their money & power to screw the little guys and keep getting richer… DAMN that is part of the problem in this country….
Mr. Dan Bailey - I feel for you & i believe that some of us are truly going through hardships and struggling to save our homes and families sanity… I too feel like a number and have been dealing back & forth with CountryWide for months…
It is a nightmare for me and my kids, i don’t sleep well at all lately, trying to figure out if i get a 2nd job, when do i see mykids & who will take care of them if i do get a 2nd job, as it is i work 10 hours daily. i have sold furniture and almost anything i have had to save my home and it still isn’t enough !
What do we do with all the money we have invested in our home. With the savings I had for emergencies. the 54K+ is down to zero, zilch, nada … i did not expect to be laid off last year.. 8 - 9 months.
GOOD LUCK TO YOU MR. BAILEY !
I am sure there are a lot of pist off CountryWide borrowers & ex-employees who would be willing to join you in your fight.
I for one am in.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 9:37 am
What were the terms of the loan!?
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Here we go again!!!!!!!
Moe-
You don’t get it. Here is the reality of the situation.
1. Mr. Bailey signed up for a loan that he should never have taken. It appears he should never have purchased a home.
2. Countrywide granted him credit. Most likely not the best business decision for them.
3. Mr. Bailey did not understand the terms of his loan, and is now unable to pay it back.
4. Countrywide wants their money back.
Please answer this question: “Who is responsible for their mortgage payment, the bank, the taxpayers, or the borrower that signed the note and deed of trust?” All the b.s. in the world does not diminish the fact that Mr. Bailey signed the paperwork, and now he is stuck. Why is this such a difficult concept for people to understand. Who cares that an email was sent out to Mr. Bailey saying this type of behavior is disgusting. Mr. Bedard, if you had lent someone money, and they were unable to pay you back, would you not be the least bit upset about it? Please respond to this email. I am very saddened about the state of personal responsibility in this country. We are on the verge of becoming a socialistic society because of poor choices that were made by consumers during this real estate bubble.
Why do people not get assistance when they are making the largest personal financial decision in their life?
Please reply to this post with a clear concise answer to these questions. Again, the answers to these questions can be found by “looking in the mirror”!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 10:50 am
You mean, after borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars, he’s being asked to pay it back? How unfair!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 10:51 am
The terms of the loan modification will be kept confidential until further instructions from Mr. Bailey’s attorney.
The facts that will be let out are that he was palced in a modification that was meant to fail based on simple common sense undweriting.
He is at 110% debt to income ratio just with his mortgage and nothing else. You can’t place someone in a product that is unfair and use deceptive and strong arm techniques to do so.
That is a big no, no.
Can someone say, predatory loan modifications? I think Mr. Mozilo and his Freeze Super Hero can………….
Thanks for your contuinued support Carrie. We need you around here and at http://www.LoanSafe.org. The homeowner haters wil be out in full force here soon with their forked tongues and homeowners hating comments.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 10:51 am
All is fair in love and war. This sure isn’t love, so I guess this means war.
A contract is a contract yes, lookinthemirror, BUT, when the contract becomes unfair and deceptive is when that contract can be rescinded and may become a thorn in Countrywides side.
I sugest you read the laws that protect all consumers. Maybe TILA and RESPA. Try your states unfair and deceptive business practices laws and see how that can relate to mortgage contracts and even loan modifications. Maybe even the RICO act will come into paly here also.
Don’t matter what they sign. It is how they are coerced into signing that deterimes if that contract is in fact valid and enforceable.
My gut tells me that many of these loans and modification are in fact unfair and very deceptive. Actually it is more then my gut because I see this happen all the time.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Moe-
You are amazing. “Homeowner Haters’????” The only thing I hate is stupidity. These notes and deeds of trusts are recorded documents signed by the borrower’s themselves. What am I missing here? Once you sign the note, you are obligated to repay it! I think this is all pretty clear. Again, why would you sign something if you are unsure or unclear about the terms. No one is forcing a borrower to sign loan papers. I just don’t get it. Please give me an answer that makes sense.
The simple facts are as follows, nothing more, nothing less:
1. Banks allowed lax underwriting standards which provided easy money to all americans. Big mistake. They should not be protected for making poor decisions. They should be subject to the harsh realities of the business world, and be allowed to fail. As you will notice, the stock prices for these firms has been beaten down to nothing. The market is efficient in the sense that it recognizes the poor risk management at these institutions and is penalizing them now for it.
2. More importantly, the American consumer drank the koolaid. Why in the world would anyone sign documents they don’t understand without getting advice from a 3rd party???
3. Finally, all the people that pay their obligations on time, and didn’t sign up for loans they couldn’t afford are know in the position to have to bail these people out, and the banks that loaned the money as well.
These are the facts, nothing more, nothing less. All the “sad stories” and fluff pieces will do nothing to dispute these facts. The reality of the situation is that American’s have been living above their mean’s for several years’ (including our government), and it is now time to pay the piper. Obama will win the presidency in a landslide, and the only possibility to save this country will be to nationalize banks, and many other industries, and turn the country into a “socialistic state.” Unfortunately, this will turn America into a 3rd world nation. I currently consider us a 2nd world nation. Wake up, and look in the mirror!!!!!!!!!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Lookinthemirror has some heavy tunnel vision here. I agree that many people did sign for loans they thought they could pay back by selling their home for MORE money. But, and here is the sticky part, underwriting guidelines are not suppose to take that into account. The lenders all knew this, yet waved off the dangers in hopes of being speculators themselves.
The first line of defense in this system of borrowing and lending is the person asking the questions of the borrower, period. Yes, a borrower can lie about their income, but a good loan officer is, in most states by law, suppose to require the borrower provide PROOF OF INCOME. Any loan programs designed or abused to get around that simple point are not the fault of the borrower, but of the lender and its underwriters. They are the gatekeepers of the money. If the gatekeepers fail, how can you blame the borrower, especially when the loan officer, who is assumed to have the credentials and moral character to protect the lender, is only concerned about his/her commission, regardless of ability to pay a loan back.
Lookinthemirror sounds like someone who may subconciously feel some responsibility. Maybe they are/were a LO or AE or Underwriter?
Mark my words, there will be many individual brokers and AEs as well as underwriters that will be dragged into court over this very issue. Some will face jail time. I will operate under the impression that sentiments expressed by those like lookinthemirror are futile attempts to deflect guilt, shame, liabilty or a combination of all the above.
Keep it up Moe. The voice of the victims needs to be presented.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Moe,
You are a grandstanding Douchebag.
The fact is this poor guy can’t continue on living in his house if he can’t afford it. It’s doubtful he *ever* could truthfully afford this house.
If you drop the rate to 0% he’ll still be in an unaffordable situation. This guy just needs to sell and move on.
Unfortunately he’s got you leading him around pushing your agenda and trying to make yourself “relevant”.
Again - You are a Grandstanding Douchebag!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 11:33 am
I have to say i’m on the side of those who don’t feel bad for this guy. I did before, but if they put together a modification, and he STILL can’t afford it, then obviously this guy put himself in WAY over his head from the beginning. not saying c-wide scum did no wrong here, but clearly this guy was in a loan he shouldn’t have been in and a house he could never have afforded.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Moe-
It sounds to me as if there was no potential modification that would have worked. If he is at 110% debt ratio with the new program-that means the payment would need to be less than half of the new one to make it affordable. There is no financial institution that would set this sort of precedence, the writedown on this sort of transaction would cause financial ruin if multiplied by all the modifications needed.
The reality of this situation-he couldn’t afford the home, he’s signed 2 notes that he can’t afford, so he should sell and buy something he can afford. The bank deserves it’s money back, as do the investors(more than just Countrywide is involved in this security), and they deserve more than 40 cents on the dollar based on your comments.
There are solutions, and they can’t be all borrower weighted. At least be open in your comments, and offer solutions.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Rates are higher than they were a few years ago. Countrywide cannot jump into their flying Delorean and give Mr. Bailey a low teaser rate he probably got years ago….
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I agree 100% with “Lookinthemirror”. This the problem in this country today. Guys like Mr. Bailey should never have owned a home in the first place. Somehow it becomes the lenders problem that Mr. Bailey is too inept at reading and comprehending mortgage docs and because of this they should give him a free loan? People, are you serious?? I’m sure some of us here pay our bills and take responsibility for our own lives. How is it fair that someone, due to their own lack of judgement gets a free ride?
No one has “modified” my loan when I have a bad month so that I can pay my mortgage more easily. I have to figure it out on my own. Personally, I think the lion share of these threads are self serving weak attempts at somehow justifying why these LO’s are not good at this business. Mr. Bailey, at least on the surface, looks like someone who needs to rent an apartment until he can figure out what it means to truly own a home. Until then, get a different job, make more money or get out. You’re not doing Cwide any favors by being late every month.
As for “Moe”, get real man. My guess is that Tony Soprano wasn’t there to “coerce” Mr. Bailey into signing anything. He had the oppurtunity to shop the GFE, to recind, to demand a lower rate, or simply not sign. These are choices. Bad choices lead to bad results and good choices..well, you know. That’s what it means to live in a free country.
Don’t get caught up in the hype. We all had a hand in this mess, including and in my opinion especially the American public. We are a nation of underachieving self gratifiers with little concept of hard work and responsiblity. In Russia you can’t even own a home, imagine what they think about this.
As for Mozillo? He was probably right. The media probably coached some of these people in terms how to respond and what to say. It would’nt suprise me at all. Mr. Mozillo is a business man, pure and simple. He’s not saving the manatees guys. Most of you would have bailed and moved to Costa Rica if you were in his shoes and had his kind of money. It’s time to wake up and quit make excuses for bad choices!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Something some people may be missing is that there could have been life events/changes that may have caused some of these issues. I wish there was some way to determine what percentage of these foreclosures/defaults are as a result of rates adjusting, etc. and which are a result of life changing events (loss of income, job, etc.). Or what percentage are people just walking away because of the domino effect of foreclosures in the surrounding area causing their own homes to drop in value so severely that negative equity is created. I just think there’s blame to go around everywhere, and people shouldn’t just blame the lender for a situation they also got themselves into also.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 11:51 am
I have been following this thread for awhile and I am wondering when people are going to realize that these people should have never been given a loan in the first place. Sounds like he was way over his head to began with. I also am a believer that if he was willing to sign his name on the dotted line with out a gun to his head then he should man up and pay his bills or sell. I am tired of reading articles and post from people bashing mortgage shops for borrowers dumb mistakes. I don’t know about you or anybody else on here, but if I am going to make the biggest purchase in my life then I am goin got know the terms. Maybe uneducated people shouldn’t buy homes because that’s essentially what I see here and in many other cases, or the buyers are just playing stupid!!!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 11:53 am
To gofuckyourselfmoe! Why don’t you take a bit of your own RX? I always love people who call names and make attacks behind a veil of secrecy! Why don’t you be a man and man up to who you are and ID yourself? Or, are you a gutless coward or a PR hack trying to defame Moe who is doing good work? I think you’re most likely a bit of both! What are you contributing to life or this crisis except your ill will, darkness, BS, stupidity, arrogance, ignorance, and asinine remarks? Do us all a favor, identify yourself or take a flying F**king leap off the nearest bridge and take your buddies and Maz along for the ride of the end of your lives! The world would be a better place without the cons, crooks, and losers!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
To gofuckyourselfmoe! Why don’t you take a bit of your own RX? I always love people who call names and make attacks behind a veil of secrecy! Why don’t you be a man and man up to who you are and ID yourself? Or, are you a gutless coward or a PR hack trying to defame Moe who is doing good work? I think you’re most likely a bit of both! What are you contributing to life or this crisis except your ill will, darkness, BS, stupidity, arrogance, ignorance, and asinine remarks? Do us all a favor, identify yourself or take a flying F**king leap off the nearest bridge and take your buddies and Maz along for the ride of the end of your lives! The world would be a better place without the cons, crooks, and losers!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Dna “bought” his home in 1993 for $41,000 and refinanced in 2006 for God knows how much. Why is it Countrywide’s fault that he signed for a loan he cannot afford? And - if he cannot afford the modification, then he needs to foreclose on the house. Where is all the cash from his refinance?
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Agree. To make an informed opinion as to who is being treated unfairly we need to know the facts: What were the terms of the original loan? Did Mr. Baily honestly qualify for it or was it a liars loan? Was he duped in the beginning? What were the terms of the modification? Has Mr. Baily simply fallen on hard times or could he ever afford this house?
While I am no fan of Mozilo and was amused my his response, one must keep in mind that CW, and other lenders, is faced with hordes of morally, but not financially, bankrupt borrowers trying to wiggle out of their commitments.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
If you have been following his story, Mr. Bailey bought his home many years ago and was able to afford it.
Life changing / hardship caused him to take ouit a 2nd loan and is now in a bad situation. all Mr. Bailey do was ask for help.
There are a lot of people to blame…. but it doesn’t change the fact that the greedy banks created these loan products, the greedy brokers/loan officers did creative financing to get people into these loans & products.
so LOOK IN THE MIRROR when you ask in question # 2 “More importantly, the American consumer drank the koolaid. Why in the world would anyone sign documents they don\’e2\’80\’99t understand without getting advice from a 3rd party???” it is simple a lot & I mean MANY people did ask advice of their ‘professional’ broker/ loan officer and got BullS**t answers or the run around for them to sign.
I graduated from college and when i closed on my first house I coiuld barely understand the 100’s of pages in those closing documents and when I did ask the broker or title person or even the bank rep, I took what they said as true & fact since they were the professional in their industry. I KNOW BETTER NOW !
most brokers don’t know s**t and the banks use them as the fall out .. CountryWide is one of the most fraudulent companies I can think of.
Mikey, Frank & Look in the Mirror: lets say for shits & giggles, that you were to lose your job, your income producing spouse, you became terminally ill, one of your kids did — you go through your savings not to lose the house you have raised your family in.. & with todays economy can not find a well paying job, can not keep up with the price of gas & food, What do you do?? walk away??? NO, you stand up and fight for what you have invested in…. You reach out for help !!!!!
isn’t that what your parents taught you, what you teach your kids, that when you are in trouble (whatever kind of trouble) you go & talk to your family, your friends whomever might be able to help you… You do however learn from your mistakes. well hopefully.
Why do you buy car insurance? in case of an accident
why do you buy home-owners? in case of a hurricane or fire or theft
why do you have health insurance? incase of illness
if you have a wound and leave it untreated it festers and could eventually cause death …. This is what is happening This industry is wounded if you don’t stop the bleeding with some type of solutions it is going to get really really bad !
I agree to some extent with some of you that there are brokers and bankers who are honest (very few), there are also borrowers who deserve to be foreclosed on because of greed in buying properties to flip or poor investment choices, but not all of the borrowers are there.
Everyone is to blame to some extent, but i keep saying it over & over - we need solutions somehow, someway …
Instead of you all attacking Moe for allowing all of us to learn from each other and here each others opinion in an open forum, we should use that same energy to help others. PAY IT FORWARD !
Be kind to your neighbors, Enjoy your family, love your kids, plan for the future and learn from yours & others mistakes…
Courtesy can be contagious , and any acts of kindness no matter how small will never go unnoticed !!!
Voice your opinion and stop the hate, & remember everytime you point a finger you have 3 of your own pointing back at you!
MOE,, YOU ROCK !!!!!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Nye Lavalle - why don’t you ask Moe to “man up” on who he is and ID himself. Do you know what his background is? Do you know how he currently makes his living? Guys who profess “many years” experience in the mortgage industry don’t just pop up from no where. Let’s have Moe explain to us exactly where and how he got all that experience and most especially what he’s doing now. Come on - let’s have some full disclosure!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Attention Lookinthemirror and gofuckyourselfmoe! You two are hilarious! I can only imagine why you are so adamantly opposed to Moe providing a real life story about Countrywide’s dirty business dealings. This is a classic case of shooting the messenger. Both of you can say that Dan shouldn’t have gotten a home loan till you’re blue in the face, but the fact remains that Countrywide sold him a loan, not once, but twice!
When Countrywide changed its business practices and sold home loans to very, risky borrowers, the company itself accepted more risk. In turn, it made a lot of profits in the past few years. You two seem really butt hurt that it’s gamble didn’t work out. Now, Dan will most likely lose his home and tank his credit (that was the risk he took). But Countrywide and other slimly lenders are going to be on the hook for all the investor’s money they swindled and didn’t pay back. Hopefully, there is lots of jail time involved!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Moe - you better hope Mr. Bailey and his past will stand up to media scrutiny!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Nye, why dont you quit your bitching. It is not CW’s fault it took Mr. Bailey this long to figure out he should be renting an apartment…
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
To: All those who don’t get it
RE: Previous Posts
Please read in detail my posts, and explain to me where I am wrong? You keep going back to your arguments that the banks “sold” these people bad loans. The protection against that is an informed consumer, and intelligent decision making. If there is a “seller”, there must be a buyer. I am tired of hearing these ridiculous stories about “personal” hardship. Granted, there are times when people have situations that occur beyond their control. So, what is the next step in the process: SELL YOUR HOUSE IMMEDIATELY. Owning a home is not a “right” in the United States, it is a privilege.
I have yet to here any coherent post that will dissuade me from the facts: 1) Borrower’s signed their notes and deeds of trusts that are recorded documents. If they were unable to “understand” the hundred’s of pages of documents, than maybe they should not have signed them??? 2) Banks that made risky loans are being penalized by the marketplace by either being shut down, or having their stock prices drop to a point where they may not recover. This is what happens to all business’ (and individuals) when they make unsound decisions. The term for this is “creative destruction”, and it is one of the basis of our capitalistic society. Remember a company called Pets.com….they are no longer in business for a reason.
Again, I would like to hear a coherent, sensible counter argument to the facts I have presented?
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Dear ProudHomeowner:
are you perfect?????
everyone has their past, but because of it does it allow a Giant like Mozillo & CountryWide to trample on him?????
I am proud of Mr. Bailey for being a recovered Alcoholic, he got his stuff together has been sober and bought his home years ago… Life dealt him a another set of circumstances & yes he may have made an error in signing those other documents on his 2nd loan, but sometimes in desperate times, you don’t think correctly. Ok ?
Maybe he can not afford his loan mod & will have to lose his home, but it does not change the fact that CountryWide used the investors money to fund both his loans, and approved him for the $ on the loan , and it doesn’t change the fact that Mozillo sent an email that was distasteful about Mr. Baileys hardship letter. how many emails with worse comments has Mozillo and his crew shared but didn’t leak to us??? MANYYYYYY
CountryWide has been processing and closing bad deals for the last few years, how do you think Mozillo became such a wealthy man and moved CountryWide bank so far up the ladder, but was goes up quickly will come crashing down !!!!! How do those investors deal with all his bad purchases, will all the bad loans? they lose too, I am sure the investor would rather lower the rate and get paid their money back than to have another foreclosed home sitting in the courts with no clear sight of it selling for years…. will the investors go after Mozillo too?
I hope Mr. Bailey can learn & recover from this experience and move on…. & as I said earlier lets try to take care of one another, it seems lately everyone is out for themselves and I don’t want to raise my children like that. I believe kindness can go a long way…
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
what if in 2006 he took out 100k to pay off credit cards with a stated pick a pay loan. the CWIDE rep told him it was a 2% fixed for 30 yrs? sure he signed the contract… too bad we are not a lawyer state.
Just trying to play devil advocate for those who are hating on dan and moe, we have no idea what situation he is in and everyone is just haten. maybe he never even got gfe work, just a loan docs in front of him and hi pressured sales.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
look in the mirror you seem to only have tunnel vision….
think outside the box ! don’t be so narrow minded & one sided.
Where you allowed to draw outside of the lines?
Play outside & get dirty?
I just don’t think you are open minded enough about the current state of this country.. The situation is pretty bad and it is going to get worse, I don’t think it will get any better by having more people homeless, and losing what so many have worked so hard to obtain….
Look in the mirror you fail to see that in your world the banks & brokers are wonderful. but come to the Real World most of them are not, they have manipulated a system the gov’t has allowed to go way out of control the last 4 years, the banks (especially CW & Angelo Mozillo) have taken advantage and manipulated the system as well. the states do almost nothing to get brokers trained properly much less have ethics when explaining a contract or binding documents, WHY? because realors, brokers, banks are greedy they are only thinking sign, sign, sign as soon as this borrower signs i have my commission check.. they think lets just tell them enough or what they need to hear to sign.. some borrowers i know tried to get out of not signing their loans and were manipulated and threatened that their deposit will be lost, their credit shattered a bunch of bogus shit to get them to sign. I even know brokers who doubled the huds / closing docs \{meaning they would show the borrower one set have them sign , then forgue their signatures on the true set\} the one they signed did not show YSP or the arm adj or the prepay, but that is what they got. So then Look In The Mirror who is responsible for that? the borrower who trusted their broker and bank???? NOT wake up !
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Why doesn’t anyone ever get to the point. Mr. Bailey know his income and his take home pay. Mr. Bailey know his mortgage payment, taxes and insurance. The simple fact is how did Mr. Bailey expect to make his mortgage payments among his other monthly responsibilities.
I have a mortgage, I pay my bills and my other monthly obligations and put money away for my children’s college. I am not a top exective, but I do live within my means. I didn’t udnerstand the terms and conditions of my mortgage, so i asked my attorney and he explained everything to me, hence I haev a normal straight 30 Yr Fixed Rate and living life like I should.
Except for the fact that the greedy borrower’s (who wanted to live above their means) loan officers, lender’s, rating agencies, wall street firms, etc have cause such a unstabile market that I, the taxpayer, is going to bare the brunt of all of this.
So why is it not fair to Mr. Bailey to lose his home, why isn;t it fair for Countrywide to take a loss, why isn’t it fair, please explain.
Moe and everyone esle on Mr. Bailey’s side, are you paying your bills and surviving?
Mr. Bailey is not only irresponsible for not living within his means but is irresponsible for not seeking help in an error that he did nto have expertise. I do not see Mr. Bailey drilling his own teeth, prescribing his own medicine.
Eeryone party involed should fess up and rectify this and this blogs prefessing to be a proponent of the borrower is not helping the situation. Yu are glorying this to get yoru 15 minutes of fame.
Thank you and God Bless whatever will be left of this country.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Rick-
This is a direct response to your “gate keeper” post. If you look in the paper you will see that hundred’s of bank stocks are hammered, or they have merged or been shut down. This shows that the “gate-keepers” (Corporations that made poor decisions) are being penalized by their shareholders. You made mention that it is a loan officer’s job to collect “income verification” from a client. If the program as dictated by the bank, did not require income documentation, than why would they ask for it? If you are living in “present” day America, you would notice that most banks have gone back to traditional underwriting guidelines because of their poor risk management over the past several years’ which created the losses that they are seeing.
The borrower issue is a completely different one. If they did not feel comfortable with the terms of their loans, there are several remedies: 1) Don’t sign on the dotted line 2) Get a 2nd Opinion 3) Go to another lender/broker for a different type of loan. The reason that all of this is a problem right now is that home prices are on the decline (and will continue to do so) and now people are crying “foul”. You didn’t hear anyone complaining about their loan programs 2 years’ ago when the market was booming. Ignorance may be bliss in the short run, but not in the long run. You need to wake up, and quit blaming those who may have been enablers, and focus where the real problem lies: people purchased homes that they shouldn’t have, and did not manage their future risk responsibly. Now the tax payers will have to bail out these people for their ignorance.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
The great thing about this country is that we have free will (and outlets) to publish our feelings, thoughts and biases on any topic including religion, politics and/or the news that surrounds and impacts us.
Americans love money. We love wealth, luxury and success, it is what made our country what it is. Certainly everyone on this forums passion comes thru and in many cases there are good arguments for reasons and blame, just as there were forums for why you should be a real estate investor and prior to that a technology investor and prior to that a ……
This thing should be over in 12 months and hopefully all you idiots who thought you needed to drive a BMW and text on your Blackberry will disappear and we will get back to working for a living.
I am personally tired of the victim mentality. Quit your bitching (and spending time on this blog) and go get a 2nd job, lazy fuck. Your dad would be embarrassed.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Jessi-
Again, you completely miss the point of my posts. You are talking about illegality in the form of “forging” documents. That is a crime that will eventually catch up to the perpetrator. Somehow, you want to mix this in with a buyer’s signing recorded documents, and then crying “foul” that they didn’t understand the terms. Forgery and ignorance are two different things. Look in the mirror, that is where most answers to problems can be found!!!!!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Kempers
I think you have the right idea of how things have been working with CountryWide.
Moe
keep up the GREAT work and this forum, i don’t get tired of telling you enough. You have a thick skin to deal with some of the BS comments etc, but I respect you for handling yourself as a professional and adult. you are open minded enough to allow EVERYONE to express their feeling their thoughts even if they don’t agree with you. YOU GO MOE !!!!
I will help you and others Pay It Foward any & every time I can.
You have taught me that there are still people in this world with balls and a heart. & that it is ok to be human !
LoanSafe.org & Loanworkout.org has been a blessing for me & my family. I feel i have some sanity left to know that I am not alone to understand what i have done wrong with my home purchase and mortgage loan… YOU KICK ASSSSSSSSSS
I will no longer take the word of a ‘professional’as fact, because it is ok to question them, eventhough most of our lives we are taught to listen to the teacher, the manager, the boss,
But we are all learning they are not always right. (sad it has taken me 38 years to figure that out).
Look for instance at our current gov’t this country is in a serious mess…… question the president, question your gov’t, question the execs, CEO etc of the banks…
you have every right to fight for your home and every right not to want to get screwed !!!!!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
dear CONFUSED you start your post by stating:
“Why doesn\’e2\’80\’99t anyone ever get to the point. Mr. Bailey know his income and his take home pay. Mr. Bailey know his mortgage payment, taxes and insurance. The simple fact is how did Mr. Bailey expect to make his mortgage payments among his other monthly responsibilities.”
——-
Well shouldn’t CountryWide have known that when they took the loan application for the 2nd loan?
checked his income, bank statements, etc
Why then did they lend Mr. Bailey the money?????
How did CountryWide expect MR. Bailey to pay back the money if he did not qualify?
Mr. Bailey stated on a different post in this forum that an unexpected illness and certain circumstances had him fall behind and unable to pay back the loan now. All Mr. Bailey was doing was asking the loan modification for help to continue to pay back his debt with a reasonable payment and program. So do you & look in the mirror think it would have been bettter for him to walk away from his obligations and live mtg free for 10 - 12 months while they foreclose on his home?
No Mr. Bailey was trying to man up to his responsiblities and try to get help, if the answer would have been no, then he would have tried to figure something else out.
But Mozillo replied to his email istead of hitting forward.
Mr. Bailey is doing or is trying to do what anyone would try to do to save their home, anything…. some of us have to work 2 jobs, some have to live in a box to feed our children, whatever the case may be, do not fault Mr. Bailey for trying….
atleast he didn’t give up and walk away…..
no matter what the outcome I wish everyone nothing but health and strength during this difficult financial times.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Carrie-
38 years to figure it out, so you started owning a house when you were say, 25, that puts you at 63 years old.
So between your Enron stock purchase debacle and your constant withdrawals from your savings account (i.e. home equity) you are feeling a pinch as you ease into the golden years.
Get your shinebox.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Kempers-
It appears that you have learned a lesson in life. Unfortunately, it took you so long. Whenever, you make a big decision in life like getting married, buying a home, investing in the stock market, voting for a president, there are responsibilities and consequences for these choices.
I am very glad to hear that you have come to grips with this, and are now on the right track. Job well done….hopefully, this will be a learning experience for all those people who didn’t budget correctly in the past, and our now feeling the pain. You have taken the time to look in the mirror, and realize that you didn’t like what you saw, and now are trying to take corrective action. Congratulations.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Look in the mirror,
what I was trying to say is that besides all the forgery going on, the BS, some good people were trusting of their brokers and got the short end of the stick…
so now that the smoke in the mirrors has cleared, these borrowers are completely confused and can not afford their mortgages. I am sure they have looked in the mirror and feel foolish for believing and trusting the professionals to have their best interest at heart and felt awful when they realized they were used for a huge commission check and another # on the pipeline monthly closed file log.
So Look in the mirror when you are sick do you not go to the Dr to find out what is wrong? Do you not take his word of a professional? It would probably piss you off if your Dr told you that the small lump you felt was nothing to later find it has grown into a Cancer. I am just saying… some of these people/borrowers did not understand their contracts and did ask for help in understanding and were given BS answers by the professional and are now paying the price. Some of these brokers/bankers/loan officers could have offered them a better deal for them and their family but chose the product or program that was paying them more. the gov;t & the banks & the greedy brokers are all to blame…. it is not the borrowers fault they provided 100% loans, SISA & NO Doc programs. in the old days you didn’t have 20% down you just didn’t buy a house. Granted back then the average home was $60,000 (20% down is $12,000) now a days the average home is $450,000 (20% down is 90,000) what average working american in todays age can honestly put away that much money? & the price of gas, the price of a gallon on milk? Do you think the gov’t should raise the minimum wage as fast as the cost of living? I think that would be fair.
Take off the visors so you stop having tunnel vision and open you sight and mind to other options….
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Jessi-
You make a “great point” with your cancer analogy. If I was diagnosed with cancer, I would go and get a 2nd and 3rd opinion. At that point, I would go on the web to analyze what choices I thought were the best for my situation. Then I would consult with family and friends and come up with what I consider to be the best course of action based on reviewing all my resources. Your point goes directly to the heart of the matter. Most people were either ignorant, or just plain stupid to buy a home they could not afford. To blame the enablers is just not facing the facts. I don’t understand why people can not differentiate this obvious reality. I have yet to here one coherent post that counters what I have been stating?? I have never “blogged” before, however, this is such an important issue, that I feel like I have to comment on this situation. We are a nation of people that have been successful due to our self-reliance. Now, we have become a nation that blames others for their situation, and is not capable of taking responsibility for our mistakes. This is a tipping point for our country. I can only hope that whoever is the next president takes ownership for our problems, and sets forth policies that will turn things around. Otherwise, we will be in a similar economic situation that Argentina faced in 2001. I would recommend that anyone facing financial hardship read the book “Rich Dad, Poor Dad.”
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
What part of “this is how much you will have to pay each month” do you think Mr. Baily or all the other people who can’t make their payments didnt understand? Loan and closing documents can be very confusing but it all comes down to if you borrow this much, you will have to pay this much each month. If you can’t figure that out, with or without a college education, you shouldn’t be signing the papers.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
stupidisasstupiddoes:
WEll WEll aren’t you just the chipper one !!!
what i am saying is that it is sad that I am 38 years old and figuring out how Nasty some people can be.
I was brought up that what mom & dad say was right, when I went to school i trusted the teachers to be of knowledge, when i get sick i trust my Dr’s diagnosis, when i bought my first property in 1996 i trusted the mortgage professionals.
What I am trying to tell you that i try to see the good in everyone and I trusted my professional so when I finally sold my condo and purchased my home I trusted the bank and the broker. and now when i look back at my paperwork and got another unbiased pro to look at it they had put a 5 year prepay i knew nothing about, they made 3 points in the YSP, they charged me 1 point discount 1 point origination because I was told I was buying my fixed rate. as low as possible to later find out that the YSP was additional money they made for selling a much higher rate…. That is why i am angry, i have learned from that mistake and i thank this blog & the forum for the new knowledge i have acquired. Knowledge is power and you learn something new everyday if you let yourself. Unless of course you and look in the mirror now it all….
& NO i did not use a Heloc as my savings.
I have a Savings account which i had over 54k at this time last year for emergencies and savings and did not forsee that i was going to be laid off after 7 years of working for a company and had to deplete my savings to meet my financial obligations during my 9month unemployment. I am currently working making 3/4 if that of what i use to earn and trying to budget accordingly.
& NO I don’t drive fancy cars, or live lavishly.
I have always lived within my means, I just happened to have fallen on bad times at a really wrong time.
So are you going to bash me for trying to live an honest life?
for being smart enough to have saved money for times like this?
for having hope in people?
for believing that doing the right thing is always better?
I did not for one second believe it was going to get this bad nor did many others.
So Will you criticize me too for trying to reach CountryWide for help?
Greed is ugly !!!! we all need money to pay our bills and survive but i just don’t think it should be at the expense of another. ‘raping’ a borrower to pay for your mcmillion dollar house mtg and benz & 2 hour lunches at Houstons in the Gables. so do you honestly think Angelo Mozillo is ok for doing what he has done and is doing? NO WAY !!!!!! F**k him and his greedy tan self. he dug his grave now he can lie in it…. why did he use investors money to purchase bad loans? GREED !
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
I am in the Title and Escrow industry and agree to a lot of what everyone is saying, in that if you do not understand the terms you should not sign. However, not everyone did not understand. Who could have forseen the major drop in prices of homes, gas prices going as high as they are and losing your job after 10 years or more with the same company..Circumstances beyond control is what caused the owner occupied homes to be foreclosed. should we forget the large number of NON-OWNER OCCUPIED properties in foreclosure that really started it. I can’t tell you how may greedy investors signed up for the Option Arm loans and guess what, prices fell, rates rose and they can’t get enough rent to cover the mortgage, so let’s just let them go.
The fact of the matter is that Mr. Bailey is not asking Countrywide to relieve him of his obligation, but instead to help him lower the costs and maintain the payment. It is more expensive to own REO property than it is to just work with Borrower. I work with lenders all day who would rather take a home in foreclosure than to settle for a short sale or work with the homeowner. Pitty we are such a society that is willing to farm out our own jobs to other countries than to help it’s own keep their houses and jobs.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Look in the mirror :
did you understand my cancer analogy ????
if your doctor told you it was nothing & you trust him that is all you need
that is what some of us & I think Mr. Bailey thought when we were informed of our loan docs.
so when he found out he was lied to & the payment doubled he was pist and called the bank for answers.
that is why i said you would probably be mad if you later found out that the lump was actually cancer and now you are reaching out to others to find a solution (another doctor, a forum on the web, friends, family) that is all Mr. Bailey is doing - trying to find a solution to his Cancer ( the option arm)
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Escrow officer the last paragraph is part of the reality and problem we are all facing
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I would like to know what he signed initially and why he agreed to it ;if he couldn’t afford it
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Dear Dave in SanDiego:
you are absolutely right, except you forget one thing.
when the broker is telling the borrower your monthly payment is this much and you see it on paper you believe that as fact, afterall the broker ‘professional’ is telling you this.
so when the broker does not explain the negative amortization to the borrower or explain exactly how these option arms work - is that the borrowers fault.
the borrower asked the question, what is my monthly payment going to be . he was told $ _— a month. the borrower knew that he could afford it for the next 3 - 5 years and the broker then told him “don’t worry you can lower your payment in a few years when you refi into a fixed loans, we do them all the time in our office and I’ll be able to help you then (meaning screw you once more).”
The borrower trusted his broker. Now the economic times are horrible. the home values have depreciated so fast it is out of control… do you think the property tax appraisers office will then also lower the taxes since the value is down? NOT they are greedy to and keep making $.
Don’t you think that salaries should have increased as fast as the cost of living?
or should the richer keep getting richer and forget the rest of the people?
I for one did not understand half of the documents in my closing, I asked the title company to explain them, they barely could read some of the disclosure wording, the broker gave brief explanations at what sounded at the time to be reasonable answers to most of them, skimmed through the hud like a dear caught in headlights. (i know now because of all the POC charges & YSP etc that they didn’t want to disclose)
but now i know that they do not know shit from apple butter.
all they wanted was the loan to fund, for me to sign and get their commission check. When i asked why my application (1003) had been redone, i was told because it didn’t need certain information that was provided on the original I signed to fit the loan? WHAT ???? i now know they used whatever creative financing techniques they needed to get the loan funded. you could here the girls in the office talk about so& so bank has easier conditions to clear,etc etc, they manipulated the system for their benefit, not the borrowers. (Except for the very few good brokers who truly work ethically and with borrowers best interest at heart) for the other 90% crooked greedy ones, i wonder what will happen to you? Karma !!!!!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Jessi-
Your analogy and reasoning is unsound for the following reasons:
You are stating that a doctor did not find a cancer during a screening or check up. Generally, that means that it did not appear on the tests that he ordered. If it was a routine check up, and he didn’t find anything, than what can you do? That is what is called fate. If he ordered additional tests, and they turned up negative, I would think it would be a good idea to reach out for a 2nd opinion. Your analogy to trusting the “professional” is faulty because if something doesn’t “feel” right, then maybe you should get a 2nd opinion. That is what most responsible people do. Mr. Bailey did an irresponsible thing by a) taking on more debt than he should have b) not reaching out for a 2nd opinion. Unfortunately, this is an expensive lessen to learn. Banks have learned it in their stock prices, and buyers/borrower’s have learned it by not being able to afford payments on the mortgages they signed up for. Please explain where I am wrong…..I do not understand your reasoning. If you still own your home, sell it now, and take the loss. Rent a home like you should have done in the first place. The fact that you are hoping the government or banks are going to “bail” you out is a waste of time and money. You have learned a hard lesson in life: Trust, but verify! Good luck to you.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
i dontknow how to start from here i dont speak good english i have a loan from countrywide too and my loan for them is $448,000 interest only and its going to change every 6 months ’cause they base it from LIBOR INDEX my loan was used to be from BANCORP ALLIANCE and they sold our loan from CW i told them in my income for $2,000 i cant i afford the loan if its going up more i pay monthly mortgage for $2,193.33 and in the loan i’m the only one there no co borroqwers and the only one i ask them for help ’cause i’m struggling to may every month not to mention food, utility bills den homeowners insurance and the yearly property tax almost $ 7,000 in my county now the hopuse has no value or keep falling and i pay interest only nothing goes to principal i ask them or write them my hadship latter since last year around sept. 2007 and i waited for 2 months ’cause they have to review it all i’m asking if they could help me fixed or pout my momthly payment into affordable so i wont be in delenquent or defualt but they dont ever bother helping me i did again in feburary 2008 ’cause i wasnt qualified for modification they told me submit again all information from W2,bank statement & pay stub i waited again for 2 months nothing happen den i did again last month they ask me again for all the my information then i have to wait another 2 months i’m already behind 1 month now this month will be the second month if they dont help me maybe they just want me to be foreclose my home i dont have no vchoice and let it go i’ve been paying them since 2006 i managew to pay on time it just that its to much in my income alone i will be having hard time to pay it now i’ll be almost 2 months behind all i’m asking for them is to modify myt loan into fixed affordable monthly payment so i could pay them, on time and my family will willing to help but it doesnt make sense for them if my loan is interest only nohting move or happen since 2006 my loan is $448,000 til now $448,00 nothing goes to principal. so to peaople in my situation if they wont bother to help us my would botther wasting your money into nothing when you know they are not going to help you the son of the buthcer anyway mr. mozilo call us anyways disgusting. so right now i submit my t3rd harship letter and i dont expect from them if they going to help me if they going to foreclose my home so be it if they ask me to do short sale i wont make it easy for them to i rather walk away 7 to 10 years in my record i could live with that.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Carrie-
You blame all the enablers, however, you don’t take any responsibility for agreeing to the terms and signing a note and deed of trust that is a recorded document. Why do you think banks require borrower’s to sign these agreements and have them recorded? They do it so people like you don’t cry foul down the road. All they have to do is pull out the recorded document, show you a copy of the note (which explains EXACTLY what the loan terms are), and ask you why did you sign it in front of a notary if you did not understand it?
All of the other information you are giving is pure fluff. They screwed me over, and made big bucks, etc., etc…..I have a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge for sale, maybe I should call you. Look in the mirror!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
To Carrie,
all your reasoning makes sense except one. The guy signed the papers borrowing $xxx,xxx.xx. Negative amortization loans are still tracking at the minimum payments that have been detailed for the first 5 years. Yeah, the loan balance grew but if someone is in foreclosure, its because they didn’t make the payments. Even making the minimum payment each month would not cause the loan to hit the reamortiztion phase yet. In fact, the index + margin on most neg am loans is still only about 7.5%. But thats the tracking interest rate, they are still making their minimum monthly payment. the same payment detailed on their loan docs that they said they could afford.
did a loan officer tell them they could refinance them later at a lower rate? Possibly. Did they put that in writing in the loan docs? Probably (absolutely) not.
Granted, their loan may now be worth more than their house and they can’t sell it but unless they were speculators, they weren’t planning to sell the house after 3 years anyway were they?
What it comes down to is it is time people are held responsible for their own actions. You can blame the banks, the brokers, the greedly loan officers or even Countrywide but at the end of the day, the people agreed they understood the docs and signed them.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Before you do your short sale you might want to review the tax laws. If you owe $448K and short sell at $350K, you will get a 1099 at the end of the year for the $98K difference (debt forgiveness). You’ll owe the taxes on this. Better plan for a bankruptcy.
When you signed the documents that said the payments would go up, didnt you plan ahead for that possibility? Or did you think that interest rates at 40 years lows would go even lower?
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
to those people in here who are pro wall street or have sympathy with the banks,lenders,brokers,appraisser and real estate agent you guys dont know shit you guys are not the one who wake up at night thinking when the next monthly payment are going to come where i’m i going to get that money to pay for it. i work hard i pay tax too. it just happen those broker take advantage of me cause i dont speak good english if i know the in and out only i will walk away but those greedy brokers are train to do that how to get those buyers they ewill do antything in there power just to get you tell you everything is going to be find some buyers could be qualified for priome rate or fixed loan instead of those toxic loan or ARM because of that YSP they could get more commision so they dont have skin if they put you in the bad loan that you cannot afford that how may broker did it to me will state your income so you could qualify to this loan and after a year you could refinance your loan now i’m stock that’s how good those broekr or loan officer even whop speak good english or born here in amrica get fooled thae one they could take advantage more those who dont speak good or understand good in english they thinking making them beliieve getting or owning a house is simple as that and now they fucxked up the small people and its destry family.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Look in the mirror
there was never a notary present when i signed any of the closing docs for one
secondly, i understand why these mega billion dollar companies with billion dollar attorneys have you sign docs in which you can’t even pronounce or understand the words it is to Cover Their Ass. But why don’t they have the closings filmed or recorded when their bank rep is lieing about the documents you are signing? What about the part when they provide you a GFE the day of closing to bring the cashiers check and it is nothing at all to the figures you were told in the beginning..
Why because the know the realtors, sellers, etc have a contract which has a date when it will expire, they also know you have x $$$ in escrow you could lose if you don’t close by such and such a date — do you see the pattern here. the borrower was getting screwed by a whole bunch of people, ( the bank, the broker, the title company, the realtor, the inflated appraisals etc etc etc) I just want you to acknowledge that there are many people to blame, not just the borrower for not understanding a document. these borrowers have been lied to and manipulated on many levels. by the time you do close you are exhausted…
it is what it is & look in the mirror you seem to only have one opinion and unwilling to understand that some borrowers trusted those professionals and were misguided..
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Dave in San Diego
if the people truly understood what they were signing we would not be in this mess.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Everyone talks about him not being able to afford his modification. I agree and disagree with many of you on all of these various facts. Many of you all have ver very valid points.
The point is, has anyone bothered to even verify whether or not he truly can afford the loan? Probably not. Does his wife work? Does he have extended family living with him that work? Maybe illegal alien relatives that live with him and work for cash? Maybe he has side “cash” jobs? Did he have disability income coming in for a while? Maybe L&I income? Food Stamps? EX-Girlfriend who was a co-borrower that broker up with him? Mabe he gambled his money away? Maybe he got demoted on his job? Maybe he had a trust fund, and had income from that and blew it all? Maybe he played the stocks and lost his shorts? Maybe he got divorced? Maybe a child died? Maybe the LO fluffed his income? Maybe there was, dare i say it, fraud? We simply do not know. I can go on and on…
And of course no one can say for sure what his situation was when he originally bought the home. Only CW & his LO know that.
I dont mean to sound insensitive, but my point is, is that life happens and it’s not always ideal. He might not be able to afford it now and he sure deserves to keep his home, but if he cannot afford it, he cannot afford it. We dont see blogs and blogs about people’s cars getting repo’d for non-payment. Again, life happens.
I do wish someone would start tracking forclosures with not simply the statistic but track the statistics of WHY the forclosure occured.. all the reasons above are a start to the list.
E-Mail me your thoughts…emilanderson@gmail.com
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
alot of immigrant in here not all dont speak good englsih or dont understand englsihnot too mention even american who speak good englsih get fooled too.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
some people could tell right away if this guy easy too fool the crooked could read it already epecially in this country if u have limited english but ur a hard working people or have a job who open credit, buy a car or buy a home those people dont even know what APR mean or pre payment.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
people can as long the broker dont like to those people and base there income and how much they could afford in there monthly mortgage payment see those banks or lenders dont care they want more because of lax of lending and the federal are sleeping that time that’s why this thing happen and those greedy brokers taking advantage to the system. i think you know YSP if i’m a greedy brokers dsont think for the buyers and the feds are sleeping due to lax of lending some brokers take advantage to the system the greedy brokers know some home buyers qualify for prime rate good loan or terms because his greedy and because of that YSP i could get more money or commision why would i think of that homeowners or buyers interet if things fucked up i dont have skin in the game anyways.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Lookinthemirror:
What country are you living in? Of course, people are going to blame the enablers. We put drug dealers, arms dealers and child pornography peddlers in prison don’t we? You are absolutely correct that both lenders and homeowners are to blame. However, you tend want to let the enablers off the hook a little too much. American’s tend to believe if there was no one pushing drugs it’d be a lot harder to get a hold of them and use. Same theory for homeowners looking for a quick fix. Enablers are a huge part of the problem.
You keep stating that people need to seek out other opinions and lawyers for help on loan terms. Lawyers cost money and when you’re paying your loan officer, escrow company and notary to provide services, don’t you think due dilligence puts them in position to do right by the customer? Homeowners are not just paying loan officers to give them a loan, but to match them with the very best loan for their circumstances and finances. Why should you or I have to pay extra money to get fair and honest services?
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
easy for you to say it like you think all understand what thety are sgning for if they get lied by a motivated greedy crooked borker he will get that job done that what happen to me all i wanted is to have a shelter for my family i’m not those people buy to houses at the same time or flipped it and sell it right away i need only aplace for my family and work hard and pay my tax.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
LOOK IN THE MIRROR
are you really this close minded or do you just shoot smoke into your own mirror.
What i am saying and have said. if you trust your professional then you trust them….. meaning you take their advice as fact because they are your professional.
I only used the cancer as an analogy - you have really blown it into a whole nother level… GEEEEZZZZZ i will try in baby terms to see if you can see them through your tunnel vision.
if you go to a DR who is a professional in his field of medicine, this is a DR you trust and researched before letting him be in charge of you health, you would take his word, his advice, his diagnosis as fact. (like a borrower trusting their broker)
Now is this doctor stated the lump was nothing in his examination. you take as fact because you trust his professional opinion. you don’t get a 2nd opinion at this time because you already trust him to be your primary care physician.
as you stated in your reply ” “if something doesn’t feel right get a second opinion” I would hope that if you have been trusting this individual with your healthcare and you researched him beforehand you wouldn’t get that doesn’t feel right feeling or you would ask him right then and there, wouldn’t you.
To then find out a few months later that he missed it or gave you a bogus diagnosis to just collect his payment from you or your insurance - would probably piss you off. it is after all your health here. so then after you do confirm later that it is cancer i bet you don’t trust that Dr the same way anymore. you then reach out & try to find solutions. I am also assuming you didn’t plan to have cancer when you signed the dr’s papers and diagnosis charts etc.
So to convert that analogy to mtg is:
if you found a broker that you trust and feel comfortable with, and you trust his/her professinal opinion in your financial matters . When going through the process you ask questions, you get to the closing you ask questions only to be told by your professional what it is you believe to be fact. When in reality you are being told 1/2 truths or whatever it takes for you to sign your mtg. You trust this professional that the explanation of the program, doc & payment to be accurate. You have done what everyone has said here you ask for explanation of your docs. So again you would be pissed off too, to find that the broker/bank/title/appraiser/realtor etc etc was not 100% honest with you and your family on your biggest investment of your primary home (this afterall is the shelter you are providing your family) so then you go and question the bank the broker everyone to find solutions to the problem to save your home.
Why did my payment double? why is there a prepay? why are the original 1003 and other docs not here? why didn’t you provide me with a GFE within 3 days of my signing the application? WHY DID YOU LIE TO ME, WHY DID YOU MISGUIDE ME? i think that is all legitimate questions to ask when you find out you got bad advice on your loan. Most of the regular working people do not know the rules or regulations or anything about the mortgage industry, if they did they would not need mortgage brokers.
So Look in the Mirror, how exactly is it the right thing to do to sell your house now? when you owe the bank more than it is worth? would it be better for you to sleep at night to know another family is out of their home or lost all of their savings in a bad real estate deal? why would you want someone to walk away from their financial responsibilities rather than find a solution with a loan mod and face up and pay? why is it ok in your opinion for some of these bank to have allowed such shitty deals to be funded using investors money and brokers to have made thousands of dollars on them and the borrower paying the price with high interest rates?
I don’t think that is ok !!!!!!!
Here is a solution:
Modify the loans, the investors will still get paid, the borrower can continue to live in his home and pay back his debt. The bank Countrywide and Angelo Mozillo will just have to settle for making a few less $ every month, but will have saved homes & families without the taxpayer dollar.
Please feel free to offer a healthy solutions vs throwing people in the street to ruine their credit. walking away from your home ? that is your solution? that is just adding to the problem. Find SOLUTIONS !
and Look in the Mirror
who are you to tell me to take this loss and rent as I always should have been. it seems your parents should have spanked you a few times and taught you not to judge people so quickly. For you information i have been a homeowner for many many years and am here to give an opinion just like you. you are just to close minded to see the whole picture.
Clear the dust in your own mirror and look at yourself !!!!
Be kinder and open minded to people. These losses are hard, the economy is hard on many. I hope you never find yourself in a bad situation - i wonder who will help you - what goes around comes around. so stop adding to the problem and stop kicking people while they are down -
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
oops missed on important factor. You make $2000 per month and signed loan documents for $448K? You expect them to lower the payments on HALF A MILLION DOLLARS to how much so you can make the payments?
You make $2K a month and agreed to payments of $2K per month? How is this countrywides fault?
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Well this should do it for the big liberal American socialist experiment (at least for the next 40 years, or unless we elect Obama). Funny how the same people defending this guy — who will ultimately lose his home — are the same people bitching that the lending practices are not fair.
Here’s the way we buy a house: 1. Get an education. 2. Get a job to support yourself. 3. Pay your existing bills on time. 4. Save. 5. Put a downpayment on your purchase and finance it based on 1 - 4.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
way too go Moe !
you stated it short & perfectly !
Look in the mirror doesn’t seem to understand the whole situation
Anyone bother to look at the big picture:
as you stated; “I dont mean to sound insensitive, but my point is, is that life happens and it\’e2\’80\’99s not always ideal. He might not be able to afford it now and he sure deserves to keep his home, but if he cannot afford it, he cannot afford it. —–Again, life happens.”
Life does happen & I think that it is ok that he is trying to save his home. I commend him for atleast having the guts to pick up the phone, write an email whatever to save his home. it says something about him. Atleast he did not sit on his ass and say well the hell with it, if I can’t afford it anymore so i will live mortgage free for the next 10 - 12 months before they even foreclose or evict me. Mr. Bailey tried to reach out for help. If he made a bad choice, got dealt a raw deal and he can’t pay it anymore well then he will have to live with those choices, but again, atleast he tried to do something to find a reasonable repayment plan or loan mod to pay his mtg.
As you said life happens and I am sure none of us planned for this industry or this economy to get this bad and it will only get worse.
Good luck everybody ! I am wishful for solutions across the board !
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
in my situation i try to do the right thing i told them straight CW i’m having trouble paying my monthly it just happen this month only i’m behind and my family willing to help me but they wont help me if countrywide wont modify my loan my family is not obligated cuase they are not the the loan only me i’ve been paying since 2006 now i wast just asking for help so i wont be in delinquent or be in default i dont want to walk away but if they not going to help me then i have a reason to walk away i wont waste my money that my blood and sweat i work hard that money and to pay it for my mortgage but if i cannot afford the monhly i was just asking if they could lower it and fixed my loan them i’m willing to pay it on time and i dont have to worry to be delinwuent or i will not be indfault or not behind nomore and my family willing to help me too but if they are not going to help me i did submit 3 harsship leetewr since last year and latest last may not happen now i’m behind last one and this month june 2008 i have 15 days grace period before those late fee added up if i cannoit get help from them i will just wait the house to get foreclose or maybe file bankrupty.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Re: loansafe.org, Moe,Steve and Scott,
I had an interview last Sat. with this company for a homeowner consultant position. I did not get the job.
Above and beyond,
whom ever believes this is a lender or homeowner mistake for these loans being written, I do not care!
What is the solution?
Who has a better way to fix this problem?
Do we let every homeowner and bank that engaged in a bad loan that has no ability to be repaid at the current payments fail?
Underwriting was way to loose and homeowners were just as greedy as the banks! Everyone is in on it!
My bigger concern now a days is that all the Brokers and LO’s that were part of the problem loans are now writng loan modifications. S C A R Y !
LoanSafe is one of the very few companies that is really putting a solution in place to get this mess worked out! I have watched Moe’s site grow since last September, and they really have helped a lot of homeowners. They are not pitching some Hail Mary, B.S. They help the homeowners that can be helped.
Do you like the San Diego “Walk away” solution better?
So please, Whether you like Moe or the loansafe organization. Or not. I would like to hear some solutions? How else can this be fixed? For the homeowner and the banks?
No more woulda,coulda,shoulda B.S!
If it was up to you, to contribute to the solution regarding this problem, What would you do to fix this mess?
Thanks
KellyG
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
HEY EVERYONE HERE IS A SOLUTION:
Every person who has a mortgage loan ( first, second, heloc) all get the same low rate fixed for 30 years. no refi’s allowed for the life of the loan. The rate should be locked at the Feds rate. They lowered it to help the borrowers and the banks did not pass on the savings to the borrowers.
i am sure this will totally boost the economy, if people, homeowners; can actually have money to spend on something other than a mortgage, & gas to get to work.
Anyone have any other solutions?
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Not every salesman, loan officer, or even doctor is a liar. Unfortunately some are which is why you sign documents that list all the details of the agreement.
What more do you people want?
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Rates are up a 1/2 today otherwise there might be a $1m in refis on this blog.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
what the used if countrywide are not willing to help you or modify or loan not even repayment i did 3 harship leeters already since last year around sept.2007 then the 2nd was february 2008 and now lasy may 2008 countrywide not even bother helping me or calling me 3 negotiator already saying to me we cannot help you.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
I love this guy——could not be stated any better:
Loanguy on Jun 5th, 2008 at 11:53 am
I have been following this thread for awhile and I am wondering when people are going to realize that these people should have never been given a loan in the first place. Sounds like he was way over his head to began with. I also am a believer that if he was willing to sign his name on the dotted line with out a gun to his head then he should man up and pay his bills or sell. I am tired of reading articles and post from people bashing mortgage shops for borrowers dumb mistakes. I don\’e2\’80\’99t know about you or anybody else on here, but if I am going to make the biggest purchase in my life then I am goin got know the terms. Maybe uneducated people shouldn\’e2\’80\’99t buy homes because that\’e2\’80\’99s essentially what I see here and in many other cases, or the buyers are just playing stupid!!!
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Hans- in your country, would they let you get away with this whinny shit or make you man up. You are not welcome to come here, apply for the dream then bitch when the dream doesnt come true.
Seems to be a one way street, as we are not headed out of the country.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
KellyG
i completely agree with you !!!!!!!
stop the BS and lets find solutions - that is what i have been preaching since i found this blog.
as for loansafe.org they are on the right track and they will be as honest as possible with you, they give you guidance and alternatives. & if you can’t be helped with a loan mod they tell you, no BS. They try to help those that truly can be helped.
Jessi:
atleast that is a positive solution and it won’t keep clogging the foreclosure courts. better to have people in their homes paying a lower mortgage than out on the street.
Renting won’t be easy as most rental properties are also being foreclosed on by Greedy borrowers or banks or realtors or underwriters with loose guidlines who allowed this to happen and now the economy is so bad they can’t afford the investment property
Lets find solutions for the homeowner who lives in the property as their primary residence:
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
yeah talk shit all you want maybe ur one of the investors or who own countrywide stock that’s why you dont feel what we feeling right now.
Posted on June 5th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
if we could only do loan to those who were smar