LONGEST FORECLOSURE CASE IN HISTORY GOES TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT

The foreclosure story of Richard Davet is one of dedication, persistence, and a never ending will to stand by his convictions and his home.

I wrote about Mr. Davet in December here on LoanWorkout.org.

In 1996, Mr. Davet was served with a foreclosure action  in his Cuyahoga County, Ohio 1940’s six bedroom home. Unlike many homeowners that just take their foreclosure medicines and move on to rent, Richard Davet decided he was going to fight back against NationsBanc Mortgage Corp., and challenge them until the end in a Ohio court of law.

Davet planted his heels firmly, and turned his fight into a full time job as he hit the books at the library of Case Western Law. He began his fight by challenging the lawsuit and then pro-longed the suit by flooding the court with motions, objections, and affidavits. He appealed the judge’s rulings at every chance, and it bought him 11 years, mortgage payment free in his home.

Today I received this email press release:

The Petitioners remain optimistic that the Court will not allow Banks to expand the “Rooker-Feldman “Doctrine to dodge accountability for fraud in the mushrooming foreclosure crisis.

The Petition raises an important question of first impression before the court since D.C. COURT of Appeals v. Feldman decided in 1983. Whether “Rooker-Feldman” abrogates the filing in a federal court of a common law bill in equity under Barrow v. Hunton, seeking to void a state foreclosure decree when Petitioners did not ask the federal courts to review the merits of a foreclosure decree only those departures from the established  modes of procedure effecting the full and fair opportunity to be heard under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment such as the manipulation and re-assignment of elected partisan judges off the record; willfully evading the random re-assignment procedure established by the clerk of courts as well as fraud upon the rendering Ohio courts by Banks that did not have standing to bring a foreclosure action as they possessed no cognizable legal or equitable interest in Petitioner’s house or the mortgage instruments.

Cleveland, OH, June 18, 2008: , The Davets’ unrelenting and determined challenge as pro se litigants to stop the foreclosure of their home began in 1996 and has been widely reported in the national press for their willingness to pursue their claims. See e.g. Amir Efrati, The Courthouse: How One Family Fought Foreclosure, WALL STREET JOURNAL (12/28/07) at page A-1:

Mr. Davets’ case is believed to be the longest residential foreclosure of its kind in the history of Cuyahoga County, which is the epicenter of the foreclosure crisis currently enveloping Ohio and many other parts of the country. Mr. Davets’ case is believed to be the longest residential foreclosure of its kind in the history of  Cuyahoga County, which is the epicenter of the foreclosure crisis currently enveloping Ohio and many other parts of the country. 

The case calls into question the role of the state court judiciary in the foreclosure process when courts lowered the bar to financial institutions in violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14 Amendment, prejudicing defendants  by overlooking the requirement in Ohio law to have the real party of interest before the court as the owner and holders of the note ( Civil Rule 17). In Cuyahoga County, OH where the Petitioners property is located there are over 1,000 foreclosure cases being filed monthly at a court fee of $ 450.00 each ( $450,000 per month) creating an obvious conflict of interest for the judiciary. 

I am following the Story of Richard Davet very closely and hope he is victorious in his fight against injustice, and for what is right.

 

 


Posted in Loan Modification News | 52 Comments

52 Responses to “LONGEST FORECLOSURE CASE IN HISTORY GOES TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT”

  1. Fuck You Moe says:

    “I am following the Story of Richard Davet very closely and hope he is victorious in his fight against injustice and for what is right.”

    And undoubtedly you will try to glom some credit for his “victory”, grandstanding douchebag that you are.

  2. Brad Dawson says:

    More slanted slighted stuff from our workout guy. You run a business, that’s all. To color with it your rightous commentary is just nuts.

  3. GATORBAIT says:

    now there is a perspective……

  4. ilikereylestate says:

    Hey shut your filthy mouth you stupid animal Moe is not a douchebag. May I remind you that banks borrow at 2% and lend the rest in the form of higher interest rates to us called debt. The debt causes more debt and if not properly funded can cause an economic collapse for both debtor and creditor. Need I say more just look around. Banks have become the biggest property owners and are forced to liquidate the repossessed homes pennies on the dollar. The home appears as a liability on their balance sheets thus lowering their ability to borrow and lend money of their deposit holders. I would not be so upset if this homeowner keeps his home. The foreclosure could be dismissed
    and aid the adjacent neighbor in his or her ability to get an appraisal of their own parcel which could further stabilize the region. Foreclosures are wrong they destabilize the entire economy in so many ways. The banks can not borrow or receive matching funds from the federal government via the federal home loan bank of Georgia if their balance sheets are overly leveraged with defaulted loans in the form of foreclosed homes. It really behooves the banks to allow generous loan modifications to allow said borrower to develop a payment plan that would extend the amortization and stall payment for 2 years as said homeowner finds secondary employment to keep servicing said debt. The laws are interpreted by judges to have a positive intent or basis for the population. The fact that banks and financial institutions are acquiring and thus selling assets at 50, 30 , cents on the dollar lends credence to the belief that there should be a national moratorium on all foreclosures until a pliable straight half monthly mortgage payment reduction is created through the form of a refinance created by a super national mortgage tax trust fund. The interest on the debt should be no more than 2% with no one making profit off the backs of out taxpaying citizens who make the backbone of this country.

  5. JRB says:

    FYM – You seen to be pretty hell-bent on standing up for the criminal banking industry. This is about right and wrong genius. If they chose to skirt every rule and law ever enacted, then they damn well are going to pay the price “friend”.

    - Not recording the numerous sales of the note in the county for which the home is in. Whoopsie, that’s the law, but they chose not to do it in an greedy attempt to lessen their workload and enrich themselves at the expense of the borrowers.

    - Not getting proper assignment of said note from each sale. Whoopsie, that’s the law, but they chose not to do it in a greedy attempt to lessen their workload and enrich themselves at the expense of the borrowers.

    - Or my favorite scam of all: Giving the court a “Lost Note Affidavit” when the bank never had possession of the note to begin with. That’s fraud perpetrated upon the court. If you had something in your hands and then realized you had lost it, that’s one thing. But, if you never had the note to begin with and then lie to the court that “lost it”….FRAUD plain and simple. 90% of every loan sold was packaged up, mis-rated, and sold to thousands of unsuspecting people, and nary 10% actually had provable ownership of the notes. Enter the HUGE “Lost Note Affadavit” trend.

    There is so much more, I could easily go on for weeks about bank and brokerage criminality, law-dodging, cheating, lying, fabricating, etc..

    So, FYM, get back to work at the bank or brokerage you work for, stop using their computer on company time, and start hatching the next scam to perpetrate on the people.

  6. Fuck You Moe says:

    Yeah, whatever, Rock On dood! It’s certainly a relief that you won’t be upset that this deadbeat keeps his ‘home’. Hopefully you’ll able to stay in your doublewide as well.

    Best of luck Peckerwood!

  7. Carrie says:

    F*** Y** M** —

    Do you have any manners?
    Didn’t your momma raise you right????

    Moe your heart is in the right place, keep doing what you are doing for everyone !!!!

  8. JRB says:

    I would have to be white to be a “peckerwood” you racist, bigoted half-wit. Do you feel like you did a good thing here today?

    When you stand in front of the mirror tonight, look yourself dead in the eyes and ask: What do I stand for? Who do I stand for? The answer to those two answers will define how you live the rest of your life on this earth brother. Hope they’re the right ones.

  9. JRB says:

    correction….answer to those two questions…

  10. Wow says:

    Wow – Don’t think I’ve ever seen the word douchebag on the internet before.

    The point that I think is being missed here is not the procedural issues this man has used to keep his house now for 12 years, but rather the simple question – Why was the foreclosure originally filed back in ’96? Was he behind on the payments and if so then the bank has a contractual obligation to file foreclosure. Whether the note was or was not Assigned properly does not change the contract signed by the homeowner with the bank. Its simple, he stops making his payments and the bank forecloses. When he bought the house was he mad at the bank or was it only when they enforced the “contract” that he decided he had gotten screwed.

    I have no doubt he looked into all possible TILA or RESPA violations and having found none went after issues regarding how the loan may have been collateralized after the fact. I hope that SCOTUS finds in favor of the Bank. This type of nonsense and any Government intervention will only prolong this downturn. Lets move thru this problem as quickly as possible and move on with our lives.

  11. Dave in San Diego says:

    This has been one of the best laughs today. A guy goes to a bank to get money to buy something he cant afford to pay for in cash. When he cant make the payments he agreed to, its the banks fault. Then we have some other idiot saying because the bank borrowed the funds to loan at a higher interest rate, they are criminals too. Sorry bud, thats how banking works. They take in deposits they pay 2-3% for and loan it out at a higher rate. Does it matter if they borrow the money from another source rather than the depositors? Not really, they are still borrowing the money to lend at a higher rate.

    Wake up. If you borrow money, you agree to pay it back. The real criminal is the guy who hasn’t made a mortgage payment since 1996 because he files frivilous motions and ties up our court system.

  12. UGOMOE says:

    Dont worry FYM, at least the 8-10yr old car you will be driving will get better mileage than your guzzling SUV, and you might enjoy a double wide, might be easier to find your character and balls in a smaller place than the mcmansion you will be losing, or have lost, because all the money has dried up. You are a broker, LO, etc.? right?

  13. ilikereylestate says:

    “Dave in San Diego said”
    “Then we have some other idiot saying because the bank borrowed the funds to loan at a higher interest rate, they are criminals too.”

    Sure Dave lets foreclose on every property, when the dust settles you will not be able to obtain a mortgage for 100 years because no one will finance or insure the mortgage instrument. Gosh and I thought it was fun to go to the zoo and watch the animals climb a tree, its more fun watching a trailer park occupant utter words of encouragement as his trailer park wife is getting STD’s at a bar so she can make payment on their rental RV, HAHAHAHAHA. Good job in making those payments Dave, just make sure you wipe yourself down after the act.

    The contractual mortgage instrument created today in this economic climate will cause stagflation and a great depression. The Federal Reserve and all three branches of our federal government have a constitutional duty to fix the problems today, right now. The real estate , were the debtor resides, was used to float debt that stabilized our economy.

  14. JRB says:

    Wow and Dave – Point taken. BUT, who holds the banks accountable for their bulls#$!? Unfortunately, this country gets everything done in court. There is no other way to deal with something like this other than to force them to do the right thing through the legal system. All things being equal (fault-wise), we should come down on the side of banks?! Not a chance. It’s fine if you believe that. We just have a difference of opinion.

    They created these loan programs that are ravaging not only our nation, but nations abroad, with millions of foreclosures. Were there tons of idiots that took the loans? You bet there were. But, who the hell let these criminal, born to fail, loans exist in the first place for crying outloud?! Who is more culpable, the pathetic idiot drug user, of the cartel that manufactures, orchestrates, and distributes said drugs to millions of idiots?

    Who holds the banks and brokerages accountable for what they do? The Fed? The SEC? Congress & Senate? The Treasury?

    Dave, banks borrow money to the tune of 30, 40, even 100 to 1 ratios. Calling in “leveraged” is total non-sense and has been proven as such by a total market sector meltdown that continues today like a freight train coming right at us. You have it exactely right though – They loan OTHER PEOPLES’ MONEY at remarkably dangerous risk levels, some might even say criminal levels!! If it was their money Dave, they could do what they want with it, but it’s NOT their money. As such, they should have to abide by EVERY SINGLE LAW ON THE BOOKS. If they don’t, then someone needs to sue their ass off.

  15. Dave in San Diego says:

    You seem to forget the basic point. The borrower asked to borrow the funds then agreed to the terms. He signed the docs.

    So you want to blame the bank for agreeing to loan him the money? You want to blame the banks for being leveraged at 50 to 1? thats not the point is it? the reason there are foreclosures is not because the bank lent the money, its because the borrowers aren’t paying it back. So does it matter how exotic the loan program was? Not really. The borrower wanted to buy a house, he felt comfortable with the price he paid for it and asked a bank to loan him the money. then he signed a PROMISORY NOTE (a promise to pay it back) with the terms clearly spelled out. Maybe he didnt understand the terms. Well then he shouldn’t have signed the papers.

    It seems in America we blame everyone else for our mistakes and hire a lawyer to get us out of the problems. What about the home owner who IS paying his mortgage on time? He is the one being hurt by the other buyers irresponibility. Its not the bank, its the borrower who is messing things up.

    Isnt it about time people started taking responsiblity for THEIR OWN actions?

  16. ilikereylestate says:

    “JRB said”
    “You have it exactely right though – They loan OTHER PEOPLES’ MONEY at remarkably dangerous risk levels, some might even say criminal levels!! If it was their money Dave, they could do what they want with it, but it’s NOT their money. As such, they should have to abide by EVERY SINGLE LAW ON THE BOOKS. If they don’t, then someone needs to sue their ass off.”

    Brilliant statement, the institutional investors, foreign investors, stock holders, bond holders, private equity, private investors got burned by those who manage their funds. The banks and many financial firms lied on their SEC filings and committed fraud by the use of fraudulent creative accounting and fraudulent document filing that swindled investors out of their capital on a mass scale. The federal government needs to intervene, reimburse all the investors for loss capital through a refinance, funded by tax payers taken out of future compounded revenue in the form of low yield municipal bonds with possible 100 year amortization fixed at 2%.

    The firms that committed the fraud should be incarcerated, stripped of their citizenship, and stripped of all their wealth.

    Their stripped wealth would then be used to purchase these tax payer funded “low yield municipal bonds” that would repurchase and restructure every dam loan in America thereby eliminating foreclosure and reaffirming contractual mortgage law to all foreign and domestic investors.

    I want my dam Nobel peace prize in credit dynamics.

  17. TUC says:

    FYM.- Where do you get that information from? Are you related to Rothchild, JP Morgan, Rocketfeller or any of those family?

    Are you one of this people that think that US economy will climb back up really soon?

    FYM wake up and smell the coffee.
    I recommend you to do some research.
    Look.. make your monthly internet service worthwhile..

    I just have 2 things to share with you all posting in this site.

    1.-
    See who I am, and what I am about. We started 15 years ago, but they dont want us to be known.

    We are the Answer to the World.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJlk24MQ3Zw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt00CodlSzY&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWxwZlRvlK4

    2.-
    Read more into the History of Banking System or just youtube it
    here some links for you. “1. Corrupt Banking System – Cartels Robbing the Public” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy-fD78zyvI.

    and FYM… just stop talking BS.

  18. Dave in San Diego says:

    to Ilikereylestate,

    Gee, if the topic of this thread was investor fraud, you might be right on but it isnt. In fact, there was very little fraud above the borrower level. the problems we face are because the borrowers income was inflated on their loan application (which they signed was true no matter who put it there. that was the checks and balance system in work. If the loan officer inflated the borrowers income without their knowledge, then the loan officer is at fault. Read a loan ap. Right above the signature line is a blurb that says you are signing that the application is true and you are committing fraud if it isnt.

    Wall Street created the instruments that is true. But that wasnt fraudulent. Investors ignored the descriptions and went for the high return. dont they teach in Investing 101, the higher the return, the higher the risk. So where is the fraud?

    again, blame everyone but the buyer who asked a bank to loan him the money for something he could not afford to pay in cash.

  19. ilikereylestate says:

    “Dave said”

    “You seem to forget the basic point. The borrower asked to borrow the funds then agreed to the terms. He signed the docs.”

    Bologny , the borrower had no choice. The myriad of tainted programs on his or her financial plate left the debtor with no choice but to keep borrowing to pay of the old debt. What surprises me is the willingness and ambition of many Americans to keep getting in debt probably because of their faith in the banking system that eventually they will make it right.

    This is called F I N A N C I A L E X P L O I T A T I O N

    My friend you need to learn these words

    Banks are funded by tax payers and debtors. Therefore due to
    the F I N A N C I A L E X P L O I T A T I O N they caused should be stripped of all their wealth past and present.

    Whats happens when you go to court and the judge finds out that you committed a crime and you financially exploited someone. You know what happens you go to jail and you get all your money taken away from you. This is the American way or it should be.

  20. Wow says:

    JRB

    The one point I would add is that the homeowner was being foreclosed in ’96. The story does not say when the loan was originated, obviously prior to that. I entered the mortgage business in ’95 and sold bank repos prior to that for 7 years and at that time there were only a few players in the mortgage business and there was not the system of convluded derivatives that we have today. MERS did not come into existence until ’99. We know the foreclosing lender is NationsBank, but the article does not state whether they were the original note holder or whether they have “standing in the court” meaning they hold the actual note and can produce it. In ’96 I suspect they did have the note and still do.

    So for me the homeowner needs to lose his case. If he had purchased in the last few years I can be sympathetic to procedural arguments like TILA violations and “no standing” due to lack of notes or improperly assigned notes or even lien strips or modification in BK, but I fail to see any evidence that this homeower has merit on any of those claims.

  21. Carrie says:

    Dave the last statement of your post states
    “Isnt it about time people started taking responsiblity for THEIR OWN actions?”

    I agree but start at the top, the majority of the borrowers are not at fault for this bubble / foreclosure mess we are in….
    Yes some borrowers were greedy and cashed out a lot more than they should have, but most of those borrowers flipping homes, cashing out, etc were most probably in the industry in one way or another ( bank, broker, LO, realtor, appraiser etc)… those borrowers should be punished.

    so for your statement – shouldn’t you go after the big fish first so this doesn’t happen again? the banks who came up with these programs, the underwriters who had new loose guidelines, the broker/LoanOfficers that BS borrowers into these programs etc.

    Now as far as this blog : this guy Mr. Davet went into foreclosure why? (1996 that is almost 12 years ago) – the economy & the mortgage bubble started about 2001 & went into full gear from 2003-2007 and now we are feeling the effects of all of it….

  22. ilikereylestate says:

    Hey Moe for what its worth i am sorry for “trolling” and ranting obsessively on your forum. When that little simpleton slandered you I got pissed and I normally do not say much. All I can say is that they are “so stupid donkeys” they are being financially exploited in so many ways but yet they stand there and allow the banking cartels to stick it to them again and again. America is a great country but when no one stands up and does something to cure the disease it can cause the death of our country. I thank you for your time and compassion in defending the righteous honest taxpayers that make this country great. The country will eventually honor your actions if not many taxpayers will.

  23. TUC says:

    FYM.- Where do you get that information from? Are you related to Rothchild, JP Morgan, Rocketfeller or any of those family?

    Are you one of this people that think that US economy will climb back up really soon?

    FYM wake up and smell the coffee.
    I recommend you to do some research.
    Look.. make your monthly internet service worthwhile..

    I just have 2 things to share with you all posting in this site.

    1.-
    See who I am, and what I am about. We started 15 years ago, but they dont want us to be known.

    We are the Answer to the World.
    w w w youtube com / watch?v = bJlk24MQ3Zw
    w w w youtube com / watch?v = Dt00CodlSzY&feature = related
    w w w youtube com / watch?v = OWxwZlRvlK4

    2.-
    Read more into the History of Banking System or just youtube it
    here some links for you. “1. Corrupt Banking System – Cartels Robbing the Public” w w w youtube c o m /watch?v = cy-fD78zyvI.

    and FYM… just stop talking BS.

    check w w w theunitedcities org

  24. Carrie says:

    ilikereylestate : you stated in your last post:

    “AMERICA IS A GREAT COUNTRY BUT WHEN NO ONE STANDS UP AND DOES SOMETHING TO CURE THE DISEASE IT CAN CAUSE THE DEATH OF OUR COUNTRY. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND COMPASSION IN DEFENDING THE RIGHTEOUS HONEST TAXPAYERS THAT MAKE THIS COUNTRY GREAT. THE COUNTRY WILL EVENTUALLY HONOR YOUR ACTIONS IF NOT MANY TAXPAYERS WILL”

    Well Said !!!! I could not agree with you more.

  25. Jl Real Estate Broker says:

    I can understand Dave in San Diego’s argument, however, when even Christopher Dodd from the U.S. Senate Banking Committee did not Know or realized what he had signed when he refinanced his home, what is left for common mortal like ours.

    I have reviewed hundreds of loan documents in my practice and I can tell you that the art of predatory lending may have reached the Pinnacle during the last few years, the level of sophistication and deceit may surprise many. It is not that the borrowers may not have realized what they signed, it is how it was interpreted for them. How these loan products were marketed, how they were SOLD, and this is the key word. These loans were sold in a way that was totally misleading. There is a class action law suit right not known as Andrews VS Chevy Chase Bank FSB, where the loan application stated the loan was a conventional loan and with a fixed rate, the note indicated they had a fixed rate in one page and on other pages it told the real story where the interest rate would change every month, at a rate of 7.5% every month all the way to a cap of 19.9%, this mechanism was never disclosed to the consumer and never shown in any paper work. Many brokers and lender violated the Truth in Lending Act by SELLING loans to people who could not afford the homes they were buying. Under the Truth in Lending Act the lenders are prohibited from not making sure and verifying the borrowers ability to repay, this fact alone should render the whole loan void and convert the lenders and brokers into common criminals for fraud. Also the lenders and brokers lied by providing fake CPA letters to certify the borrowers tax returns, violating TILA and the U.S. Tax code and the Federal rules of evidence. Also in many cases specially in the immigrant communities the mass media was being fed with advertisings offering loans to any one who could breath. No doc, No Asset, No Job, No papers. When the time came to file the loan application the Loan Officers had their clients sign blank forms, and after that they told the consumer to wait for a phone call and settle 30 or 40 days later. They took care of everything, at settlement they were fed 250 pages of very complicated documents under very unfavorable conditions and were rushed through the process. In most of this loans the consumer was unaware of the fact that the loan officer and the lender had conspire to sell him a higher interest rate than what he could have been available for him, generating a commission to the broker and lender that was split generally 50/50. Let me explain the par rate was 6%, in other words, you could get 6% on your loan without paying any points, but the rate sheet was never made available to the consumer, on the contrary the lenders instructed the brokers and loan officers to sell the 7% or 8%, or Negative amortization loan, where the lender would pay a yield for the differential in the interest rate, the consumer would not object because no one was honest enough to tell him or her that the POC or YSP, or Fee paid to broker from lender was going to cost him X amount of money extra a month, multiplied by the amortization factor. If the Lenders and broker would have told all these people that they were making an additional commission by selling them a higher rate without their knowledge and actual consent, I believe that many people would have either walk out of settlement and canceled many deals before their illegal consummation. The argument is not whether they want a free home or not, or whether they signed the documents or not, the argument should be under what circumstances, was the sale or refinance induced or closed under the basis of fraud and deceit?, did the lender actually complied with all the federal laws and regulations, they are not only playing with the dreams and hopes of a family that is either buying and selling a home, they are also playing with the money of investors, stock holders, and even money lent to them buy the U.S. Tax payers.

    The ordinary consumer and most attorneys, they will review documents and approve them for closing, but I can find in the same documents from 10 to 30 violations of RESPA, TILA, HOEPA, FHA, Civil Rights Act, etc.

    The consumer needs protection and all practitioners, and professional of the real estate, banking and settlement industries must realize that if you kill the consumer/borrower financially, everyone loses. At the end of this mortgage and real estate debacle, we will see over 15,000,000 Americans who may have lost their homes , their life savings, their families. The industry in the quarterly greed for corporate results and the “I am the top producer lender and real estate agent mentality”, would have financially killed all these people. They will not be able to re enter the market for some time and many will no longer trust the system. I believe banks are important, and real estate agents are important, however, the consumer is the driving force in our economy and they are the least protected.

    We need to rethink and do away with the caveat emptor mentality, it is predatory and unfair. Not every one has the possibility to attend Harvard or Yale.

    Our economy revolves around the little guy, we cannot forget that, the little guy buys the house, gets the loan, buys groceries, buys insurance, buys cable tv, buys airplane tickets, we seem to forget that. There are mega companies and mega banks because of all the little guys like us.

  26. JRB says:

    “You want to blame the banks for being leveraged at 50 to 1? thats not the point is it? the reason there are foreclosures is not because the bank lent the money, its because the borrowers aren’t paying it back. So does it matter how exotic the loan program was? Not really.”

    Dave, it is so totally the point it’s scary. The reason there’s foreclosures is because these f-ing loans were allowed to exist in the first place. What started out as a bunch of idiot borrowers and criminal speculators (misrepresenting incomes, etc.) taking these ridiculous loans has now eveloped every human being on the Planet Earth that had nothing to do with it. Why? Because these loans exist that’s why.

    If crack was never intended to actually get anyone addicted to it then why was it invented? Did people invent a drug just to invent it? Of course not. Their intent (key word here) was to invent loans, and guidelines so lax, that anyone could get a loan and I mean ANYONE, regardless if they could afford them or not, and reward the loan reps who pushed them HANDSOMLY I might add. Started with the idiots yes, but the virus has spread across to everyone.

    - First, they come up with these abominations.
    - Second, the have their co-conspirators mis-rate them in order to pan them off to unsuspecting investors here and abroad.
    - Third, they’re leveraged at such insane levels, based on BS collateral so dangerous that even stress-tests by the “brightest minds” could gauge it right.
    - Fourth, everything starts to fall apart when there are recod defaults “nobody saw coming” and low-and-behold, there’s an unprecidented spiral in real estate prices equating to the largest loss of wealth ever recorded and continues growing.
    - Fifth, there is an immediate pull back of every loan program that might be deemed even marginally risky, LTV’s are pulled back to ridiculous levels that couldn’t possibly work in a rapidly depreciation market.
    - Last, people that can easily qualify to refinance based on their good employment, income, and credit can’t because the appraised values are now so low do to this mess that they now don’t qualify because of LTVs to low. So, they try to sell instead, but no no no they can’t do that either as there’s no buyers not to mention money to buy is VERY hard to come by and getting harder. Enter, the GIANT MESS we’re in.

    If these loans were never invented we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now. They were invented, they were allowed to exist for years unchecked, everyone and their pug in our government turned blind eyes, and so here we stand.

    You fault me for wanting these criminal financial cartels to pay for what they’ve done by creating these Instruments of Destruction? I don’t see how you can do so with a straight face.

  27. Jl Real Estate Broker says:

    MERS the biggest sham in the country, no you can see every lost note foreclosure with MERS as the beneficiary, If you do not hold the note, you cannot demand payment, federal rules of evidence, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME

  28. Carrie says:

    JL you stated
    “…the level of sophistication and deceit may surprise many. It is not that the borrowers may not have realized what they signed, it is how it was interpreted for them. How these loan products were marketed, how they were SOLD, and this is the key word. These loans were sold in a way that was totally misleading.”

    YES YES YES you totally understand what is going on here, i hope that those bloggers here that only blame the borrower can understand now how messed up this whole situation is.

  29. dog chapman says:

    Carrie-

    There are only a few who really rip on the people in real trouble….. the ones who’s story makes sense.

    You have to agree that some homeowners, now calling foul, saw the opportunity to inflate their income to buy a home because money wasa flowing all around……you know this right? Same people who fill out the credit card application and state an inflated income.

    From my take many posts are actually pointing out the entire system was flawed…and even the investors themselves were swindled in some cases. Some even point out that the banks and investors also need to step up and take responsibility….not just the homeowner.

    perception is reality- this is a funny thing-

    good luck and keep fighting.

  30. Moe Bedard says:

    Wow, I am in meetings all day and then come back to the blogging world and it looks like we have another one sided great debate with level thinkers on one side and ignorant fools on the other.

    Business as usual in the blogging sphere of my life.

    It is such a privledge to see some of the thinkers that take the time to express their views so elequently here. I am honored by many of the reading I do and many times, I myself am educated by several of the great minds who visit LoanWorkout.org.

    Carries, Rick, JL, JRB, TUC and many others, THANKS!!!!!! Your words do not go unread and your debates are just classic.

    I truly apreciate the people who have supported some of my views and information I provide here on LoanWorkout.org and LoanSafe.org. This blog is really here just for that.

    Information on the super information highway.

    Of course, since this is a blog, I will express my views with the facts. My news is biased, yes. But biased on cutting through the lender and media propoganda and exposing the truth to consumers, homeowners and the people of this country.

    Mr. Davet is a man that is doing the same thing. This is about principle and exposing the truth. About fighting for what is right.

    This isn’t about a man not making a payment and if you Moe haters and homeowner haters feel that way, then your minds are just as small as those words you typed above and if you think I am a douchebag, then you drink and eat me everyday.

    So, who is the true douchebag?

    Tooshay!

  31. Tippaporn says:

    Jl Real Estate Broker stated
    “I have reviewed hundreds of loan documents in my practice and I can tell you that the art of predatory lending may have reached the Pinnacle during the last few years, the level of sophistication and deceit may surprise many.”

    Would it be possible to reproduce an actual loan doc marked up to show where predatory lending was contained in the docs? Would be interesting to see and possibly edifying to those who are not professionals.

    Doing so might also put to rest so many of the arguments that “people should have known what they were signing” as proponents of that argument would plainly be able to see the degree of misleading complexity contained that would take a highly skilled professional to understand.

    I think one important item overlooked in many of these discussions regarding consumer responsibility is basic trust that is assumed to exist between parties by most consumers when they engage in complex contractual legal transactions. Most people do not possess the acumen, let alone the specific education, required to analyze and correctly interpret complex legal documents to determine whether or not they are truly to their benefit. Nor do many have the time to properly educate themselves.

    Therefore, most consumers rely on an assumed trust in a respective professional to act in behalf of their best interests. So often, it has been proved, this trust is non-existent. Not only is it non-exsistent but the reverse seems to be the case where the professional is acting only in his or her own self interest at the expense of the person who is placing their trust in said professional.

    While the term “buyer beware” could be used as an argument to pin the full responsibility on the consumer the question then begs “what of the responsibility on the part of the professional to adhere to their respective professional code of ethics?” Theoretically, if professionals were to be strictly guided by ethics then the term “buyer beware” would not exist.

    At the bottom of this crisis, I believe, is the base issue that morals can never be fully and utterly legislated. Hence, I see no end to future debacles of a similar type. At least not until a major shift takes place within our culture regarding certain, rather many, misleading mass beliefs, such as the beliefs behind the current mass addiction of pursuing money as the number one goal of earthly existence.

    I believe greed is the ultimate issue here and it’s many insidious effects are visibily, painfully, being played out for so many to see. Yet before we look to change another I believe we must first look within ourselves for change. That may be our ultimate individual responsibility.

    Cheers.

  32. dog chapman says:

    god looks out for the drunks and fools….

  33. Moe Bedard says:

    He does dog, you’re right. But and this is a BIG BUT, he looks out for those who’s hearts are in the right place, just not their minds.

    My guess is that many drunks will be just OK, but many of the fools we see, well, he has A LOT of work to do with them.

    We are talking about huge lumps of clay that need shaping and to be stuck in a kiln for many many days and weeks and quite possibly years.

    In the end, those fools who’s hearts are in the right place, who deserve the best, will get just that. And the ones who don’t will get just what the have sewn in the path that the have walked and it wont be pretty.

  34. dog chapman says:

    i guess it is hard to distinguish the fools from the stupid sometimes. The stupid are fools who’s heart is in the wrong place.

  35. bitsy says:

    I am a little curious as I went into the Cuyahoga County
    auditor and recorder sites. Now, I admit I am not the most
    computer savvy person but I went back to 1970 and see four
    different transfer deeds “to” a Richard Davet per the recorder.
    Per the auditor, I only see three properties currently owned
    by a Richard Davet and they all appear to be commercial.
    They also all show in foreclosure w/ horrendous back taxes
    due. The most recent mortgage I can find on a Richard Davet
    was filed 9/22/95 and am wondering if this is the mortgage that
    is pending foreclosure since 1996?

    Perhaps someone else would care to look at the sites and see
    if you can determine a sequence of events. I also could not
    help noticing many tax liens filed and one of the deeds to
    one of the commercial properties was a quit claim from a
    Peter Davet to a Richard Davet and this possibly Ries Flooring.

    Was the Richard Davet in question in business for himself and
    was a business failure his undoing?

    Maybe folks should nose around these public sites and then form their opinion as to a Richard Davet’s intentions.

  36. Proud Homeowner says:

    bitsy, you are 100% correct. Mr. Davet defaulted on his loan and is using the system to screw the lender. He is not some poor, misguided, misled homeowner. The lender cannot locate his original note and he is using that as well the legal system itself to get out of honoring his obligations. For Moe to use this guy and his story as some sort shining example of the oppressed homeowner fighting Goliath to rally his troops to revolt is the ultimate absurdity, but then Moe has not impressed me as being terribly bright anyway.

  37. bitsy says:

    TO: Proud Homeowner,

    Can you determine what the actual property address is?

    If the foreclosure never went through, (still in litigation)then why is there no residential property listed in his name?

    Who is the listed owner of record now? And since horrendous
    back taxes on the three commerical properties (that may
    or may not be the same Richard Davet??????) I am curious
    if the taxes are being paid on the residence?

    If the mortgage in question was in 1995 and the foreclosure
    started 1996, how many payments did he make, if any? If he
    did make payments, is this not his acknowledgement of the
    debt owing? Does the recorded mortgage mean nothing if the original note is lost?

    Why do so many believe that if he gets out of paying his
    mortgage he is some kind of hero vs. the thug that knocks
    over the 7-11?

  38. JRB says:

    Yes there are people “gaming” the system. I’m not sure if this guy is gaming it or not. If he is, that’s not right. But there are millions of people who are being financially destroyed becasue of these bank created, government accepted, Instuments of Destruction.

    The idiots (you know who you are) deserve what they get. Those who had nothing to do with it that are losing thier homes, jobs, possibly even families, over this crisis is F-ING RIDICULOUS!!

    Would you defend the person who makes 10,000 pounds of crack and then distributes it to all of his “sales force” to sell? What defense would you use? The “Well, if people wouldn’t buy it, there would be no problem” attitude? The problem is PEOPLE WILL BUY IT!! And now we have a nation, and world, being financially blown up by the very people who brought the match to light the fuse.

  39. Lookinthemirror says:

    Here we go again…..please answer the following questions:

    1. Is it a requirement that people in the United States purchase a home?

    2. If one decides to purchase a home, would it not make sense to read the documents in detail (especially the documents that are notarized and recorded) to ensure that they understand the type of loan they were applying for?

    3. Why do you think banks specifically require a buyer sign documents in front of a notary and then record the signed note and deed of trust (or mortgage contract)?

    4. There are basically 3 types of loans:
    a) a fixed rate note…..the payments are fixed for the
    determined period of the note (30/20/10 yrs.) SIMPLE.

    b) a “hybrid” adjustable loan that has a fixed payment
    for a specified time period (i.e. 2,5,7, or 10 years’)
    These loans will then adjust to a SPECIFIC Index with
    SPECIFIC margin (spread) over the index, and then
    adjust periodically thereafter (i.e. every 6 mo/12mo)
    These loans also have a LIFETIME CAP which is
    SPECIFIED in the note. These loans may have an inter-
    est-only option as well, whereby the buyer pays NO
    PRINCIPAL until the loan resets. A LITTLE MORE COMPLI-
    CATED.

    c) The Option ARM Adjustable Mortgage that has a fixed
    PAYMENT (NOT A FIXED INTEREST RATE) that adjusts on
    a monthly basis. The underlying rate changes monthly
    based on a SPECIFIC INDEX, and a SET MARGIN. Each
    year the buyer’s MINIMUM PAYMENT generally will in-
    crease by 7.5%. The underlying ACTUAL payment still
    adjusts monthly, and there is also a SPECIFIED Life-
    time CAP on the note. If the buyer consistently pays
    the MINIMUM payment, there will be deferred interest
    that is added on to the principal at the end of the
    year. These loans also have a maximum amount of
    deferred interest that is allowed over the initial
    loan amount (usually loan can not go above 10% its
    original balance). MORE COMPLICATED.

    Now that we know what the 3 types of loans are, why in the world would someone not get a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th outside opinion prior to accepting terms on the largest financial decision they will make in their life?

    5. Why wasn’t anyone complaining about the terms of their loans a couple of years’ ago when property values were booming?

    If someone can answer these questions with a coherent concise answer, I would like to hear it??? Maybe, I am one of the only people in this society that believe in personal responsibility. Sure, there are times when people lose their jobs, and there are other extenuating circumstances, however those instances are generally rare.

    Let’s look at the REAL issue. Just because someone is trying to “sell” you something, does not mean you have to “buy” it. That is why we have a free society (for now). It rewards people for making intelligent financial decisions, and it punishes people for making unwise decisions. (take a look at the number of foreclosures, bank failures/stock declines, investment blow ups to see who made POOR BUSINESS DECISIONS). As far as the first line of defense in ANY business decision…..LOOK IN THE MIRROR!!!!!

  40. Lookinthemirror says:

    JRB,

    A couple of questions:

    1) How is it that you compare “crack” (illegal) distribution to mortgage sales (legal)? In our society, people have CHOICES and OPTIONS. If they make poor business decisions, who is to blame?

    2) Just because qualifying for a loan was “easy”, does that mean that someone should apply for one?

    3) Is there some “law” in America that REQUIRES people to purchase a home?

    WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!! When you are making the largest financial decision in your life, you better research it prior to signing a BINDING note and DEED OF TRUST! I am saddened by the irresponsibility of consumers in our society. No one was complaining about the terms of their loan when home prices were rising, however, now that they are falling, everyone is crying “foul” and blaming others for their poor decisions. Unfortunately people often follow their government and parents when making decisions…..that is why we are now a DEBTOR country and society. It is really depressing that we are soon going to be a socialistic society primarily due to lack of personal responsibility…..it is just very depressing that the person who pays their bills on time is going to have to BAIL OUT those that made irresponsible decisions. My advice: short the stock market, and sell your house NOW!

  41. PIST says:

    Tippaporn you posted on Jun 18th, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    you stated it so eloquently – the exact problem some of us are facing… now for those people who keep stating it is only the borrowers responsibility and they should have gotten a 2nd opinion theory…. there were contracts with deadlines, $deposits in escros to lose and that 2nd or 3rd opinion might have been as corrupt if not more than the first person you trusted with their expertise & professionalism to guide you through this process.

    I for one remember getting hundreds of pages at closing and could barely understand some of the ‘lingo’ when asked I trusted what the title person & broker where saying – ( i mean shouldn’t they know, they do this for a living as their profession)-

    to: JRB you posted on Jun 19th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
    the analogy you used was perfect !
    Some borrowers I will accept were just as corrupt (but some of those borrowers were realtors, brokers, appraisers, a/e’s purchasing 2nd homes etc to flip)

    for the rest of the borrowers that are truly going through hardship and were mislead, and did experience predatory lending – you are not alone ! we need to fight for what is right.

  42. Lookinthemirror says:

    Pist-

    You keep falling back on the tired old excuse of “the paperwork was overwhelming”, “they pushed me to sign it”, “if I had a 2nd or 3rd opinion, they would be corrupt”…..give me a break. You made a poor business decision and bought over your head. It is really that simple, and the sooner you take personal responsibility for your decision making, the better off you will be. In your case, it sounds like you should have consulted at least 3 trusted friends/associates before you made this decision. I hope you have learned a valuable lesson, and won’t let this happen to you again. IF YOU CAN NOT AFFORD IT, OR ARE NOT SURE YOU CAN AFFORD IT, DON’T BUY IT!!!!!!!!!!

  43. Proud Homeowner says:

    BTW bitsy, Mr, Davet no longer owns the home. He was finally forced to leave it a year ago and it has been sold to a doctor I think. You can find this by doing a google search on the loser’s name. Yeah, he’s a real folk hero.

  44. dog chapman says:

    It seems the numbers are pretty clear to me…

    95% of all mortgages are not delinquent and currently paid on time. The FBI arrested 300-350 brokers after 4 months of investigations…

    if almost all originators were hoodwinking homeowners shouldn’t the default numbers be much higher?? Percentage wise…the actual number of foreclosures is higher than in the past but more people bought homes. I am not a homeowner hater, i just do not understand the contention that most homeowners were tricked into something they did not understand.

    I do not think 300-350 that were arrested is the majority of originators in the country.

    I feel bad for those few who did get tricked and had dishonest people they were dealing with but as the above story indicates, there are homeowners who did know what they were getting into and are gaming the system. Out of the 5% of mortgage defaults I would be curious how many of them were actually tricked into a mortgage.

    Just my thought on the issue.

  45. gatorbait says:

    JRB-

    The drug correlation is a bit off base…. in reply to your analogy here is another perspective
    -actually if you educate the buyers and make punishment harsh enough for the crooks then you would have far less crack sales. As far a demand you will always have a percentage that will want whatever can get them their fix.

    In housing the single biggest issue seems to be the complaint of “i did not know” “I was tricked” ” I was offered something that was not the right program”

    If most of the people in trouble purchased the last few years then I am not sure why they did not educate themselves. We are in an era of the Internet and can research almost anything. So a simple Google of the program the person was not familiar with would give many results of the pros and cons of what one is getting into. It seems the homeowners on this site can use a computer to post their complaints.

    I am not bashing the people who were swindled…just asking the question- why did they not research the program on the web?

    Those who did trick people and swindle homebuyers then I am all for punishment of those people…I just don’t believe that this was the case most of the time.

  46. Christopher Barksdale says:

    In responce to F.U. Moe’s comment about the Davet’s, first I’d like to say keep up the good fight, I am a resident of Cuyahoga County Ohio, and the Banks have trully monopolized the courts, with respect to foreclosure action, whatever, they file is granted, in my case, my mother died 02/27/2004, the Bank foreclosed on her 11/17/2004, after she died, and took her house, which went to me, so i too have been fighting, in court to get it back, to respond to this guy who seem to think people like us are deadbeats, keep yo filthy mouth shut, and come to Cleveland, Ohio and see me, see how I have fought the banks, which people should be doing instead of saying on a website Fuck You to people that expose the fight, don’t believe me check out: Google…Estate of Jacqueline L. Barksdale Williams v. Deutsche Bank come out in the open so we know who you are, as I have; I’m not scared, are U?

  47. Me says:

    Christopher Barksdale …this is to funny I was just reading an article on all the illegal foreclosures by Deutsche Bank. Pull up MFI-Miami Investigates illegal foreclosures by Deutsche Bank…I am sure it will be of tremendous help. I am going through some things that were done illegally by the bank and the banks attorney. They foreclosed on a house and gave no one the opportunity to bid on in advertising it to be sold in one county and say they sold it in another…(NOT TRUE) was purchase without being auctioned off. Then to pacify me re ran an add in the newspaper for another foreclosure auction because what was done was illegal… NO ONE EVER SHOWED UP. I stayed from 10am until 4pm took pictures of everyone who cried out properties on the court house steps. Because I knew it would have been his word against mine if I have to go to court. I figured no one would show up because the property had already been sold…illegally..($10) I am investigating this and finding out all kind of wrong doings. I will prevail in the end.
    Do not give up…investigate everyone involved. Been in the real estate market and I know what goes on.
    GOD Bless and put your trust and faith in him and you will prevail. Ask HIM to lead and guide you …and you will get the answers that you need to win this one. Blessings
    Me thelsegroup@yahoo.com

  48. EJA says:

    People still do not get it right or wrong/if you pay your mortgage or not–that is not the issue—THE ISSUE WE AS A COUNTRY ALLOWED THE MONEY CHANGERS TO PUT US IN FORECLOSURES,REALE STATE UNHEARD OFF PROBLEMS, THEN RUB THEIR HANDS AND SAY WE GOT YOU—BANK OFFICERS, AND A FEW GOVERMENT OFFICIALS ARE MAKING MONEY—THE REST ARE PAYING—-THINK WHAT THIS SOUNDS LIKE YES FREEDOM RUSSIA.

  49. BP says:

    I am not addressing anyone in particular with my response; however, I will share an opinion based on first hand experience. I purchased a home and signed a loan agreement which was fraudulent. There were documents which had been notarized without our signatures and dated at a time we had been out of state. There were lines which had been “whited out” and “other” hand writing which clearly reveals it is NOT mine or my husbands.

    We are fighting for our home since we’ve been foreclosed on and with God’s help; we will prevail. I may not be the majority . . I have no idea what “other” people are truly going through or dealing with in their individualized situations.

    What I can share with you is a few REAL FACTS.
    1. Our credit was excellent and this foreclosure has runined that.
    2. Our name and reputation always in good standing, not taunted by this.
    3. The only WRONG we did was follow the INSTRUCTIONS of our lender when THEY ADVISED US: you have to let a few payments lapse to show a need for the modification program, then you will qualify . . . Then our nightmare began!

    These facts I have shared with you are extremely minimal and do not represent all the wrong which has been done by “our lenders”. These are just a few examples of the heartaches and chain reactions they created because we simply did what they ADVISED us to do. Our only mistake was following the INSTRUCTIONS they gave. God help us when we can no longer place any trust in the professionals who carry so much of our lives in their hands.

    I could not begin to share with you all the wrong and illegal things which have taken place in our case; I would be writing for a very long….. time. But . . . to each of you here please try to understand that every case is in fact different and there are REAL PEOPLE who have been exceedingly decieved. It is my personal opinion those “lenders” should pay for what they have done ESPECIALLY when they alone CREATE the problem. As it has been in our case.

    My prayers and Blessings to all who are suffering.

  50. J.G. says:

    I COULD RELATE TO THE ABOVE BP MY MODIFICATION HAS LASTED ABOUT 2 YRS NOW. I ASK THE BANK (NATIONALCITY) NOW P.N.C FOR HELP TO LOWER MY RATES, THEY TOLD ME TO HOLD OFF ON THE PAYMENT FOR TREE MONTHS WHICH I DID.WE STARTED THE TRIAL PERIOD WHICH HELPED. THE WAIT CAME ON AND ON HAD TO GET AN ATTORNEY TO HELP US, AND THAT TOOK 6 MONTHS. NOW I HAVE ALL THESE FEES THAT ADDED UP TO 50K. THE BANK PNC LET THIS DRAGGED OUT TO GET MORE MONEY FROM THE OWNERS, HOPEFULLY THERE WILL BE A CLASS ACTION AGAINST THE BANKS! WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING WHEN THIS IS THE PRODUCT OF THE GOVERNMENT!! THE ONLY THING I DID WAS TO ASK FOR A LOWER RATE I’M SCREWED!

  51. Pat the rat says:

    It’s the banks that are wrong they made loans to people they who could not aford them ,and then bet against them. you never heard of c.d.s.?