There are a lot of people who will fall some who will be ‘casualties of war’ (meaning they will take the fall for the big fat greedy cats).

Elaine:
on Jun19th stated at the end of her blog:
“I understand business – working to make a profit, but somewhere along the line integrity should be a part of that process.”
& i like to add where are their morals? their work ethics?

“ignorance to the law does not exempt you from it”

i really feel bad for those who were victims of sleazeball brokers or were “tricked” into signing any paperwork. It is really a bad situation when the lender wants to foreclose and if there is a complaint filed about misrepresentation, it is quite possible the docs the borrowers signed could be used against them.

Quick quip
-the form that the borrowers sign at closing, the 4506t, correct it is for the lender/investor to pull tax returns. But it is not only to compare income, but to potentially be used for legal reasons if the note is defaulted on in the future. Since that form is usually sent through the mail with other mortgage papers, it now becomes a possible federal mail fraud charge for the person who executed the form.

Sometimes it was used to score the originator on how the income stated on the application matched the tax returns.

Ironic….the homeowner may be kicked out of their current home and actually find themselves in a minimal security
facility with free room/board.

As rick said it seems this aspect is not a priority of the investigations at this point.

i guess my point is and has been when you use the term “almost all” and “almost always” it loses credibility. I did not see this as the case and I reviewed many, many deals over the past few years. A better deal was not had at the bank….period.

Brokers are on the wholesale end…so many, many do pass on the savings.

Do you get a better deal at Macy’s or target/Costco?

Again it is false that the broker had to charge 3%…they could charge .5% if they wanted. The average YSP was 1.5%-2% and .5-1% in origination fees at most…this was the average. Yes you did have a few who did charge more but it was not “almost all”…this is completely false no matter how many times and different way you claim it.

The banks have to make a min of 3% on almost all deals to keep their doors open due to sheer overhead. In this market brokers are now avg 1-1.5% ysp and .5% in origination.

Now when you get into sub-prime then your math is a bit closer…maybe that is it, maybe you are speaking sub-prime brokers??

LITM–i agree what does it really matter? but i interpreted this site as forum to give information to help those unfamiliar with the process to actually understand it a little better so they may be a little wiser going forward. It is just very biased to throw out the term “almost all” brokers are basically thieves. I feel it may doom these same people to get taken again.

You may be right, at the end of the day… does it really matter….

I am glad you did feel i was insensitive and your are correct, i was simply trying to understand your dynamic to possibly suggest a course of action to help you recover any damages that you might be entitled.

It is frustrating to see the unethical clowns that stepped into this industry and felt the desire to make only a commission and not actually help people choose a proper program. However there are many in this field who are very ethical and do want to simply help people and do offer the proper options to purchase a home. I am just as frustrated to see the ethical brokers/LO’s being lumped under one umbrella. The old adage- if you help enough people reach their goals then you will achieve your goals- is a mantra that many brokers do follow.

This blog is a good site to vent and learn from different perspectives..it is just unfortunate that you do have some on both sides of the issue who would rather bash and trash instead of have a rational discussion or debate on possible solutions. In some cases people will actually inject misguided information/statements for some strange reason, however I do believe that even these posts have the intention, in their own way, of really trying to help the battered homeowner even if the tactic is a bit questionable.

I do think it is good to hear the opinions on all sides because it does reflect the divide and sheds light on how each side of the debate feel they are being sacked by the other and their view on the governments role.

You may have heard the FBI finished up a 4 month investigation across the country and did nail about 300-350 of the type of unethical and crooked brokers that many were abused by on this site. Certain states have more of an on-going investigation than others and it is more geared towards the fraud aspect. Unethical behavior alone is unfortunately not a crime..so if someone was charged high fees and not put in the proper program then the broker involved may not have committed a crime. If that broker forged documents and changed terms without consent then there is some potential issue to investigate.

South Florida is a heavy focal point for the fraud that went on, specifically in 05/06, and you will hear and see much more activity from that region in the near future. It may be muted comfort but hopefully many of the bad apples will find a special basket. I urge those who may feel they were a victim of fraud to contact the FBI in your area because most reports of fraud are being investigated to some depth.

the interesting thing about these clowns is had they taken the time to actually learn the business they would have been able to make a living the right way.
The advent of automated underwriting was allowing many more borrowers to get into homes with conventional financing so the sub-prime market was almost unnecessary. All in all the automated system also contributed to the drama due to the tremendously high ratios and super low down payments the system would allow.

Good luck to those who feel battered and a bit hopeless. Keep up your efforts and there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

Gator, I did not find your initial comments offensive. You asked some reasonable questions and I answered, no doubt, questions a lawyer might ask, so I did not find them out of line.

Rick, this was our fifth home purchase over the years, so I do not think that all Real Estate people are evil money-grubbing parasites. I understand, like in any profession, if the individual has more greed than moral compass damages can happen. We have worked with some very honest ones in the past, who worked with us carefully on all phases of purchase and walked us through to completion. Unfortunately, that was several years ago, and was not the case this time.

The regional manager of Countrywide who originally got us into this mess no longer worked with Countrywide when I called him to ask about what he had done. He..himself…called Countrywide and attested to the fact that he gave us a one year prepayment agreement, however, Countrywide did not want to honor that, for whatever reason. So at this point I don’t know who to believe.

LookintheMirror,

I am trying to understand your motivation for your lack of compassion. I do not think you really read my post, you just chose to skim through it so you could hurry up and post your own opinion.

So let me reiterate that we did not like what had been done to us, but we took responsibility for it. We would be in a good position at this moment had the one year prepayment penalty been honored. We had already obtained another loan and we were ready to dump that horrible Countrywide loan for a lower interest rate which would have given us about the same payment with no negative amortization.

However, I wish to interject here, that it is the banks that set the standard for qualification of a loan. If they set the standard high enough, then buyers are “forced” to choose the less than desirable loans, even though they might not have a poor credit history.

Credit scores are lowered each time you allow a financial institution to check your credit, so if one is trying to be competitive in selecting a loan the credit score is lowering even during the process.

We could afford a home, we have owned homes since we were in our twenties. We are not irresponsible children. We just had a reasonable expectation of integrity.

However, our trouble might have stemmed from the bad loan it was not the source of our biggest problem. It was because they held us to the prepayment penalty that we did not agree to that we lost that opportunity and had to refinance our other home in order to payoff the prepayment penalty and obtain other financing.

If you had paid attention to my post, you would have noticed that I never once said we were late on any payments, nor had we been irresponsible with our debts.

However, because of the prepayment penalty and the refinancing of our rental home we lost over $1500 of income per month in additional to the excess charges for the refinance of our rental and the cost of the prepayment penalty on our property. All of these were costs that ran into over $100,000.00 and are increasing monthly. Costs that could have been avoided had Countrywide honored our contract that they had in house.

To this date, we are paying on time. We have secured another lender and we are strapped in tight, financially, but we are trying to do the right thing.

It seems to me that you are saying it is okay for people in the real estate business to be unscrupulous, because it is the buyer that should be the one to beware. How would our society run if everyone took that opinion?

So if I go buy a car from a car salesman, who agrees to finance the vehicle and I drive it off the lot only to find out it has no brakes, I would still be the one responsible because I should have either brought a mechanic with me, or gone back to school to study vehicle construction?

I have worked a full time job, gone home to raise three children, cook, clean, do the laundry, attend PTA meetings, take care of my aging grandparents and in addition you are suggesting that I either go back to school to study real estate law, or hire a Real Estate Attorney who can schedule his time with mine in the purchase of a home because the Real Estate and Lenders cannot be trusted. They should not have to change their ways…we should?

I understand business working to make a profit, but somewhere along the line integrity should be a part of that process.

Again I feel sorry for your situation. Look back to the early 90′s and we had a similar situation: a housing boom, loose underwriting guidelines to assist people in buying a home they should not have. What was the end result: BILLIONS of taxpayer money through a government bailout called the RTC. Now, we have a MUCH bigger problem, however, after the election, there will be ANOTHER government bailout with a new name. This time however, the average American has a NET ZERO savings rate, so the medicine may not cure the problem. The main problem (maybe not in your SPECIFIC instance) is that Americans spend way above their means, and they assume that it is a right not a privilege to own a home. I am following the money…..and guess where it leads: right back to the person that accepted a loan they could not afford, and now can not pay it back! This is where it all began. The banks enabled it, and they are paying the price. However, the consumer wins the “big prize” in this mess by accepting terms they COULD NOT AFFORD. Please tell me specifically where I am wrong in this analysis. Also, try to make a strong argument.

Look in the mirror – I have a credit score in the mid to high 700′s & that is about & that is about to change because of a true hardship my family & I are in. & please do not tell me what to do with my time as I am well capable of managing it thank you. I am here to release stress, learn from others and help those that I can. I was in great financial shape until we fell into a hardship – Please let me know who else you know that had 9 months of reserves in the bank and put a large downpayment on a house? and at the time of purchase, trust me we could afford it fine. My husband has been with the same company 11 years and we do not throw our hard earned money away… i don’t drive fancy cars or buy out of my means – we just got blind sided and at a time that the economy & unemployment is all messed up. Gas prices up, food prices up, and incomes less than before.

Most places are hiring new people that will do it for less & downsizing if not closing their doors. So keep on sitting up there on your high horse looking down and blaming only the borrowers you should take a moment and stop staring at yourself in the mirror and you might get an idea of how messed up this is. It goes way way way above the borrowers.

another blogger stated “FOLLOW THE MONEY” not just 10,000 made on a loan by the broker but the BIG MONEY those responsible because of their GREED are the true ones responsible for this mess !

Who really cares about YSPs, and SRP’s??? There are incentives in all sales organizations. This is why there are CHOICES in our society. No one has a monopoly on the mortgage industry, in fact, buyers can talk to many people about applying for a loan. All you keep doing is blaming the banks, when the answer to the problem is: DON’T BORROW MONEY IF YOU DON’T THINK YOU CAN PAY IT BACK…..what am I missing here??? Please let me know! Am I the only sane person on this blogsite (OK, maybe a few others). Why would anyone be SO IGNORANT to not ATTEMPT to understand the details of the LARGEST FINANCIAL DECISION they will make in their lifetime???? Can anyone answer these simple questions…..please enlighten me!